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> Voyager, what do people have against it?
Christy
post Sep 20th 2004, 4:33 AM
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i'm serious, i thought Star Trek Voyager was a great series!
what was wrong with it?
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gem360
post Sep 20th 2004, 5:34 AM
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i thought voyager was a great series too. for me there's nothing wrong with it
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Rossmc40
post Sep 20th 2004, 5:37 AM
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Of the Star Trek series I felt it was the weakest.

To many of it's plots/ideas were just re hashed from TNG. To be honest I felt it just tried to be another TNG and thats why it fell flat.

DS9 had it's own interesting story arc's that had nothing to do with any other Star Trek series and that's why it stands out, while Voyager doesn't.

The acting in Voyager was also a bit patchy sometimes. I just didn't buy Janeway as a captain and Chakotay was pretty much useless. I really liked the doc though.

Overall I wouldnt say I hated it, just didnt like it as much as the rest.
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Janos
post Sep 20th 2004, 5:39 AM
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In the beginning, there were numerous times they could have gone home. But if one person, in one culture they'd never met before had to suffer in some way, then they couldn't go home.

The whole Kazon-Ogla was a retarded plotline that took them a long time to realize it was retarded.

I also remember in the first season there was this big deal about having a limited amount of photon torpedoes that somehow they forgot about in the rest of the show... whistling.gif

I really did like it a lot more towards the end. Whereas other Star Treks had corny episodes in Season 1 and Season 2, I seem to remember that Voyager seemed to have some stupid ones all the way through Season 3 and 4 before it started getting good. Like I said, I really liked the last part of it, I thought it was entertaining.

But I can't call the entire series great when I only really liked half of it.

And since I'm talking about things I didn't like about it, I might as well rant about my all time "Voyager Pissed Me Off" moment. I don't remember what season it was, but it was the episode where the Borg were trying to contact 7 of 9 because that Null or Zero thingy (where the borg went when they were regenerating and weren't Borg for a while) and the whole episode revolved around starting this big rebellion in the Borg ranks. It was really exciting and clever and at the end of the episode, a Borg sphere was overtaken and the last scene showed Voyager flying off with the sphere right next to it. I was so stoked to see what would happen next. Were they going to take over more ships? Were they going to fight the Borg? Was that ship going to be with them?
And then the next episode was on. And the sphere wasn't there, and they didn't mention it. And then the next episode was on. And the sphere wasn't there, and they didn't mention it. And then the next episode was on. And the sphere wasn't there, and they didn't mention it. I remember jumping to the TV whenever Voyager was on so I could see a continuation of the story. After 6 weeks, they never, ever, simply mentioned what happened. That really pissed me off.

So, all in all, I liked Voyager, it was mostly good, but I didn't love it like I did TNG or DS9.

This post has been edited by Janos: Sep 20th 2004, 5:40 AM
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ted_simple
post Sep 20th 2004, 6:48 AM
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Many people dislike the premise of Voyager. They don't buy the characters who don't come across as the same professional Starfleet officers as on the Enterprise-D or Deep Space 9. Voyager is generally regarded as a series for a younger audience. I believe the stories try to get you attached emotionally more than in the other series...well it worked with me. That doesn't mean the series is stupid...I find most episodes very clever. It's just hard to see if you don't take Voyager seriously in the first place.

QUOTE (Rossmc40 @ Sep 20th 2004, 12:37 PM)
The acting in Voyager was also a bit patchy sometimes. I just didn't buy Janeway as a captain and Chakotay was pretty much useless.

You didn't buy her? Strange... to me, she was the most convincing character in the series. And my fave captain. Although she annoyed me towards the end ... after Equinox, Chakotay never opposed her again, he became a real pussy.

I liked the overall acting, and regarding the depth of characters I can just remember *cough* William Riker, Deanna Troi, Wesley Crusher *cough*.

QUOTE
The whole Kazon-Ogla was a retarded plotline that took them a long time to realize it was retarded.

Many people say that, but remember they finished it after two seasons. I think it wasn't that bad to get the series going.

QUOTE
I really did like it a lot more towards the end. Whereas other Star Treks had corny episodes in Season 1 and Season 2, I seem to remember that Voyager seemed to have some stupid ones all the way through Season 3 and 4 before it started getting good.

I liked all seasons. Season 4 is especially good, I think they hit a peak there and after that the series slowly degraded. There are still outstanding single episodes (and many of my favorites), but season seven finally has a lot of crap in it.

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Sep 20th 2004, 7:11 AM
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spacekid
post Sep 20th 2004, 6:59 AM
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i have to agree with most of the points here there where so many opportunities for voyager to go home. Here is a little problem 70000 light years to alpha quadrant
less then half of that to the gamma quardrant side of the bajoran wormhole. this was just before the first meeting with the dominion so why didn't the writers send voyager into the gamma quardrant instead?

the episode which was probally the best in voyager was the doughnut planet the race that referred to voyager as the skyship.
so i hated most of the eps but some of them did have good plots though just acted badly
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ted_simple
post Sep 20th 2004, 7:24 AM
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QUOTE (spacekid @ Sep 20th 2004, 1:59 PM)
so i hated most of the eps but some of them did have good plots though just acted badly

You're mixing your personal dislike of the characters with the abilities of the actors. What was so outstanding about the people who portrayed Beverly Crusher, Deanna Troy, William Riker etc.

QUOTE
less then half of that to the gamma quardrant side of the bajoran wormhole. this was just before the first meeting with the dominion so why didn't the writers send voyager into the gamma quardrant instead?

The funny thing is, in the end they were just around 10-15 years from home, but Janeway took the shortcut in endgame to shorten the journey by 17 more years. Silliest episode ever.
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Rossmc40
post Sep 20th 2004, 8:24 AM
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QUOTE (ted_simple @ Sep 20th 2004, 1:24 PM)
The funny thing is, in the end they were just around 10-15 years from home, but Janeway took the shortcut in endgame to shorten the journey by 17 more years. Silliest episode ever.

Didn't they say in the pilot that they were about 70 years from home?

I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I've seen it.
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ramz
post Sep 20th 2004, 9:35 AM
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I know what you mean, I thought "Endgame" was going to be great, but it just screamed "Ok, that's all the 26 episodes for the season, no more budget, they've gotta go home now...".

Anyway, Voyager lacked a lot in some respects, however, in same same time it had the worst elements it also had the best, the 4th, 5th and much of the 6th season I liked very much. The 4th season is among the best ever of all the ST-series. But there was mostly stand-alone episodes that were good, not any long storyline (only DS9 have had a successful long storyline).
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ted_simple
post Sep 20th 2004, 1:18 PM
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QUOTE (Rossmc40 @ Sep 20th 2004, 3:24 PM)
Didn't they say in the pilot that they were about 70 years from home?

I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I've seen it.

In the beginning it was 70 years, of course, but as I said, seven years later, they were much closer... they had found several shortcuts over the years.
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Mars
post Sep 20th 2004, 4:00 PM
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My favorite Star Trek series is Deep Space 9. However if it wasn't for Voyager I would never had given DS9, or any of the other Trek a second chance. I was a casual viewer of The Next Generation, I only watched it when I could'nt find anything on the other side to watch. I was not really into sci-fi much at that time, I was only 10 at the time if I recall correctly. So I did not watch it from week to week, as for the original series at that time I only knew of them through the five movies that had been made. No-one else in my family was or is a sci-fi fan.

When DS9 started I felt that the pilot had promise but the subsequent episode's that followed didn't really have anything in them to keep a 12 year old intrested for long. After about the sixth episode of DS9 I gave up on the show. Then in 1994 I think, Babylon 5 began to air in the UK on channel 4. Babylon 5 had my attention from the start, I was 14 or 15 at the time. Then I could not get enough sci-fi to watch, I watched the episodes that I taped over and over again. By the time of the 3rd season 4th season hiatis, I wanted more sci-fi.

At that time while waiting for the new Babylon 5 episode's, BBC2 had shown Star Trek Voyager's pilot episode and at that time I thought that it was brilliant. Another sci-fi series that I liked. I had just started working a few months before, so the next chance I got I went out and bought it. Over the next few weeks that followed I bought all the Voyager video's that were out to that point, which was season 1 and 2 and enjoyed them all. I was still trying to find more sci-i to watch so while I waited for season 3 to be released, I gave DS9 another chance.

Season 5 of DS9 was about to be released, the Dominion about to invade the alpha quadrant, I bought as many of the video's of previous season's as I could get my hands on before season 5 was released. I still think that season's 1 and 2 are weak in episode strength (apart from season 1's Duet), in season 3 the episode's began to find thier feet and in season 4 they hit full stride. After this I bought all the Trek I could I was hooked.

Star Trek Voyager was really my introduction to Star Trek, although it lost it's way from being about a ship far from home to the development of Seven Of Nine's humanity, the show like any other had weak episode's, bad episode's, episode's that took the show away from it's core objective in later season's.

In my mind though Star Trek Voyager as a whole did not falter.

Mars.
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Christy
post Sep 20th 2004, 5:04 PM
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Star Trek Voyager showed a woman's presence and changed Star Trek..she was the first commanding role and she actually wore clothes all the way through the series *except for when she was in a towel* As did Kira in DS9.
Deanna Troi started out with a very short dress.

I have to admit the series was the best after Jeri Ryan *Seven* came in...for some reason she gave the series new plots and where to go in the series...with her character and while it seemed like one season was entirely focused on seven, she did have good storylines around here...but i found her relationship with Chakotay weak.
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ted_simple
post Sep 20th 2004, 5:32 PM
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I fully agree, Kira was an outstanding character. Did you ever wonder why Dax got so few character episodes which centered on her alone and NOT on Worf/Jadzia or anyone else? She was just not an interesting person. Her on Risa didn't exactly make me hot either.

Without Voyager, there would definitely be something missing about Star Trek. Picard and Sisko were great leaders (for their tasks, the federation flag ship and a big space station), but Janeway added a whole new layer to the rank of captain.
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Christy
post Sep 21st 2004, 4:36 AM
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she also showed that women are great leaders.
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Mike
post Sep 21st 2004, 7:25 PM
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Being once immensed deeply into the regins of the Trek Kingdom, I feel the backlash against Voyager was that it was on the tail end of the "next generation" era. TNG came in at the right time and DS9 added an interesting aspect to the Star Trek universe. During this time you had toys, comic books, posters, even the Hilton in Las Vegas was redone to have a Star Trek theme to it.

After awhile the over saturation in marketing loses it's appeal to your average and above average sci-fi/Star Trek fan to the point that they feel that they are sick of it. It's not Voyager's fault but I feel that the over milking of the cash cow by Paramont created the backlash. Voyager was a great show that kept with the traditions of TNG and DS9, being innovative and pushing the envelope.
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USA#1
post Sep 22nd 2004, 9:59 PM
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personally I loved it. saw every episode from begginning until ending. except Endgame which I later taped *like 2 years later, that was annoying*. I loved every episode my favorite series of all time.
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mithwriter
post Sep 23rd 2004, 8:34 PM
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I think my biggest problem with the series was just an overall bland feel to it. It felt too formal, too sterile....also, it felt like it was trying too hard to be the next big Trek. While I did, at first watch the show for characters like Janeway, Chakotay, the Doctor and the Neelix/what's-her-name combo, I totally despised 7 of 9 from the start because it was so obvious from the casting and costume what the primary attraction was supposed to be of this character. I admit I also have a big time dislike for the Vulcan. Just didn't seem cast well, no matter what the actors intentions.

I also noticed how the whole 'we have rebels on the ship that we're now stuck with' didn't last very long. I think the biggest problem with Voyager is that there were so many story safeguards built into the show of things that could NOT happen that I just didn't care what DID happen.

To me, that's the bottom line...the characters. I personally don't give a s*** if they 'recycle' a story from a previous Star Trek show from whenever. I know the fanboys and fangirls go "of my god, they did that story in ST:TNG"...who gives a s***? I can't remember, and anyway its more important to me to have a well executed story that draws me in...after all, there are many ways of exploring the same theme....just do it in an interesting....and involving way.

For me, Voyager didn't have it. I think another problem was that I preferred the more mysterious stuff with The Borg back in ST:TNG days when you didn't know that much about them. Having 7 of 9 kinda took the stuffing out of the fear factor of the Borg.

Mind you, I did not watch much past season one, but I couldn't get myself to watch an ep through in its entirity after that point.....boring!
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ted_simple
post Sep 24th 2004, 8:31 AM
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And again, an in-depth analysis by mithwriter! Thank you, this is always welcome. You have a good feeling for the series considering you didn't watch most of it. smile.gif

QUOTE
I also noticed how the whole 'we have rebels on the ship that we're now stuck with' didn't last very long. I think the biggest problem with Voyager is that there were so many story safeguards built into the show of things that could NOT happen that I just didn't care what DID happen.

There was more potential. Surprisingly the series was still good, despite some bigot frame conditions. Why could Janeway never be wrong? Because she's a woman, and has to be portrayed strong. That was annoying at times.

QUOTE
I personally don't give a s*** if they 'recycle' a story from a previous Star Trek show from whenever. I know the fanboys and fangirls go "of my god, they did that story in ST:TNG"...who gives a s***?

Even worse, those who say Voyager was just trying to be another TNG. Or was a bad TNG clone. I think TNG and DS9 had more in common. Star Trek evolved over the years. You can't claim TNG is a bad TOS rip-off either.

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Sep 24th 2004, 8:42 AM
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ILoveBeckett
post Feb 16th 2006, 10:10 AM
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Each series was different. Voyager was set in another quadrant, so the stories would more or less be the same, it was refreshing to see different aliens, and not to hear about the Dominion war! It was great to see more of the Borg, and where they came from. I personally can't fault it
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danielfan
post Feb 16th 2006, 3:56 PM
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I really like voyager, especially the last 2-3 seasons of it. It did seem to have a shaky start. OTOH DS-9 started off good and went down hill after the 3-4 season. TNG is my favorite of the ST series. I also like Enterprise, but then again I've been a hue fan of Scott Bakula's since Quantum Leap. Enterprise really started to find itself the last season, except that lame series finale
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Atlantians
post Feb 17th 2006, 3:21 AM
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I actually have personal conections with the series. It was one of the fiorst shows I saw when me and my mom moved into a house. For Four years we lived in that house and the first episode of Voyager was with us within the first few months of being there.
I was five. I would play games with my friends, and we would fight over who would be Tom Paris.... I usually got stuck with Harry Kim, but I started to like the character more because of that.

Then we moved from that house to another house.
We lived at that house for three years.

The very last night we were in New Jersey, and in that house... Me and my mom sat down on our bed in the middle of the Living room, having only the things in the house which we were leaving behind. We sat down that last night in New Jersey, and watched the last episode of Voyager.

Wow. Im actually starting to get teary eyed thinking about it.

QUOTE(Christy @ Sep 20th 2004, 2:04 PM) *

Star Trek Voyager showed a woman's presence and changed Star Trek..she was the first commanding role.

*cough* Enterprise-C *cough* From "Yesterdays Enterprise". wink.gif

Dang im a geek. online2long.gif


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ILoveBeckett
post Feb 17th 2006, 10:30 AM
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Gorkerd! thats what we are Gorkerds! and that TNG ep was good
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CluckChicken
post Feb 17th 2006, 10:54 AM
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I never made it through season 2. This series had so much potential but none of it was ever touched in the first 2 seasons. There was little difference between a TNG ep and Voyager other than Voyager had new aliens and every ep they would say that they were heading home. There was no real connection between each weeks eps, every ep was a self contained story with little to no carry over. They also keep that same thing were the Federation is the most powerful force around, this did change in the ST universe after B5 introduced the Vorlons. They even had a lame ass ep were some crew members were trading tech for money and power to an alien race that they had just meet and carried the same treat level as a common house fly.

It was just too much of the same.
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Ori
post Feb 18th 2006, 7:19 AM
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I saw season 1 and then got busy and only watched it once in a while. When they came out on DVD i got all the seasons and I enjoyed them. Not as much as ST:TNG or DS9 though. A couple problems I had with the show were:

1. I hate Janeways voice and hair. Although when they made her hair shorter i think it was a lot better. almost like when Cisco went bald on DS9. He was so bad ass after that.

2. Like CluckChicken said, no stories or episodes connected together. For example, Kess. I think they could have made at least a half season on the people of her race they found in the other Caretakers array. Then when she left the ship she came back because she hated Janeway but they never really told why she was mad except for something like "I wasn't ready to leave, waaaa, waaaa, waaa."

Although the best part of the whole series was when Jeri Ryan played Seven of Nine. OMG!!!!
I actually saw her in an episode of Matlock a few months ago. WOW!
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