110 - Justice Options Rating

[Shylodog]

They're note travelling at light speed. Remember, that causes relativity issues. Rush says, that they are travelling faster than light, but not through hyperspace. So they have some sort of FTL which is not as slow as the Ancients we met. Those Ancient were travelling for thousands of years to get from one Pegasus to Earth. Which reminds me of a question I'll post in that episode thread.

You're absolutely right. He did say "faster than light, but not through hyperspace". I just used the term "lightspeed" to keep anyone from getting confused about what I was talking about. From here on out, I'll just call it FTL, but we need to agree that "Hyperspeed" should not be called FTL, just so no one's confused with our discussion.

My major point is that we have come to assume that Destiny left Pegasus prior to the Ancient's arrival there (because of the older model stuff on-board, no puddlejumpers, etc). So if that is the case, then the FTL on Destiny cannot be nearly as fast as Hyperspeed. If it were, then the Aurora class ships would have THAT FTL, and not the slow "wraith speed" Hyperspeed engines. Basically, this FTL predates Hyperspeed. So they cannot just jump from galaxy to galaxy, they are on a singular path (as long as they are on Autopilot, that is) through the galaxies as determined by the gate-seeding ships.

I had assumed that they've gone to more planets than the ones we see, just like on the other versions of the show. But I'd disagree about the ones that merit a story...

I agree, he could just dial the gate manually if theses gates can even be dialed manually. But I'm saying that I think the only way to get the ship to drop out of hyperspace is to use the code. How would you use the code if you're in a different galaxy where the gates have different symbols?

That's where my theory differs. I don't think you need the code. I think all it will take is a dial-in. Rush just had the crew brainwashed to THINK you couldn't. I think that may be his biggest lie yet. OR, we may have found a big plot hole. Time will tell. But the key is, you have to know the ship's address. Not a "constellation" style address, but the code. I think you could dial that code from anywhere (within the galaxy) and you'll get to the ship. If you're dialing from outside the galaxy, well, then you need to know the super-secret "pyramid" chevron, which only Ancients (and now the Tau'ri) know.

I remember Rush saying, that the ship finds a planet "within range". I'll have to find that, but if it is the case, every gate in a galaxy would be in range if they are positioned in that galaxy.
I think the difference is whether they dial the gate's address vs using the code to access the gate. The code works from anywhere in the MW, but locally, they're be dialing the gate with a normal 7 chevron address.

Well, "within range" is kind of ambiguous. Rather than just saying "within range" I think if you add "with the approriate perameters" it is less ambiguous. Basically saying there are a bunch of planets, but only certain ones contain the things they are looking for. I truely don't believe that the gate is limited to anything more than any other gate ever made. I think it's just a way for the writers to give the appropriate understanding on what they are doing. Perhaps just an inappropriate statement made by the writers too. *shrug*

[JTMAG1]

Yeah, I'll agree, just an inappropriate statement. Or perhaps it was put in to help the new viewers understand that while the game works, Earth is too far away to dial.

[puseyuk]

Other than being in a coma, did we find out what happened with the guy who sat in the chair?

[Shylodog]

Other than being in a coma, did we find out what happened with the guy who sat in the chair?

Not yet.

[d1craig]

well 1 thing about the FTL ships and there engines, you dont necessarily put every piece of technology you have into every vehicle you create therefore the aurora ships in pegasus galxy wou8ld not have or need them. also them ships where most probably created in war times and had to be rushed into/out of production and destiny is absolutely huge possibly the 2nd biggest ship we have seen since Atlantis so it might have used alot more powerful engines or something which required more space (no zpms so far i believe).

yea this was the most interesting episode since the series started and i hope the next episode actually continues on the story. would be great if that ship was there as bait and some aliens came and investigated the people that find it.

EDIT - also Atlantis was created before them aurora class ships (well it would make sense to assume it anyway) and Atlantis had very efficient and powerful hyper drive so there is an example of them not putting there most powerful engines in all ships.

This post has been edited by d1craig: Dec 10th 2009, 4:59 PM

[Shylodog]

well 1 thing about the FTL ships and there engines, you dont necessarily put every piece of technology you have into every vehicle you create therefore the aurora ships in pegasus galxy wou8ld not have or need them. also them ships where most probably created in war times and had to be rushed into/out of production and destiny is absolutely huge possibly the 2nd biggest ship we have seen since Atlantis so it might have used alot more powerful engines or something which required more space (no zpms so far i believe).

yea this was the most interesting episode since the series started and i hope the next episode actually continues on the story. would be great if that ship was there as bait and some aliens came and investigated the people that find it.

EDIT - also Atlantis was created before them aurora class ships (well it would make sense to assume it anyway) and Atlantis had very efficient and powerful hyper drive so there is an example of them not putting there most powerful engines in all ships.

You make a very interesting point. Atlantis's drive was not called a Hyperdrive, but was consistantly called a "Stardrive". This implies it is a differnt kind of drive, specifically designed for the city-ships. However we still know that it travels through Hyperspace, so in essence it's still a Hyperdrive. Atlantis is also the only other ship we have seen that has landing area on it. Could it be that Destiny is actually the Ancient's original design for a "city-ship"? I mean, it looks nothing like a city, but it has external landing pads, and a multitude of lodging quarters on-board. That and given it's size, it could quite possibly be "city-ship" v1.0, where Atlantis could be "city-ship" v3.0 (as far as we know).

Ultimately, TPTB will let us know exactly what it is in their own good time, I suppose.

[Revan]

Getting stranded on an alien planet. That sucks. He deserved it, but that sucks.

I am sure he either will repair that vessel or he will get picked up but its owners.

[RJLCyberPunk]

You make a very interesting point. Atlantis's drive was not called a Hyperdrive, but was consistantly called a "Stardrive". This implies it is a differnt kind of drive, specifically designed for the city-ships. However we still know that it travels through Hyperspace, so in essence it's still a Hyperdrive. Atlantis is also the only other ship we have seen that has landing area on it. Could it be that Destiny is actually the Ancient's original design for a "city-ship"? I mean, it looks nothing like a city, but it has external landing pads, and a multitude of lodging quarters on-board. That and given it's size, it could quite possibly be "city-ship" v1.0, where Atlantis could be "city-ship" v3.0 (as far as we know).

Ultimately, TPTB will let us know exactly what it is in their own good time, I suppose.

That's probably because of the size of the Hyperspace Bubble that has to be created to encompass a whole freaking city ship as opposed to your run of the mill Starship.

[hawkes]

I'd have thought that the original Ancients city-ship would have been the one to depart their homeworld in The Ark of Truth. They would have had to have lived on that ship for an extremely long time as it made it's way to this galaxy...

As for the whole stargates being in range of Destiny, i don't quite get why some of you feel it's an ambiguous statement or why you don't understand it. The gates aren't as powerful as the ones in the other series, i'd have thought the fact the entire gate spins would have shown it's an earlier model. When they say gates in range that is all they mean, which gates that can get a lock onto. Once Destiny has moved even one meter out of range of a particular gate that's it, no travel to it and back. Main reason the ship was created in the first place was so the Ancients could visit those worlds, the gates are just too far away for them to have locked onto them. Of course that does bring up that question many have asked; Why could they lock onto Destiny in the first place? It must just have been a power issue, after all have we been shown the gates power source yet?

Still as for the episode, it wasn't too bad overall just too predictable. Is it just me or is Young consistantly shown to be one of the worse possible leaders in a TV show yet? He doesn't seem to quite grasp the notion of leadership, of the greater good... Hell stranding the only guy with the brains to get you home is a good sign your not quite the guy for the job. True Rush would have been a handful if kept on the ship, but serisouly if the crew knew what he had done he'd not be as successul with his little manipulations, and the crew would have atleast had his insight into the technology on board.

As it is Young, in his wisdom, has trapped a bunch of people with little expertise on Ancient technoloy onboard an Ancient ship with problems. That choice alone would have got the guy kicked to the darkend of the ship by any community of people, he's more or less cut there chances of getting home to very slim. And why the hell is Earth still doing next to nothing to get these people home? I thought Stargate command was once populated by a group of "never leave anyone behind" types of people. So far it seems as Earth has said "screw the Destiny"...

This post has been edited by hawkes: Dec 24th 2009, 8:03 PM

[JTMAG1]

As for the whole stargates being in range of Destiny, i don't quite get why some of you feel it's an ambiguous statement or why you don't understand it. The gates aren't as powerful as the ones in the other series, i'd have thought the fact the entire gate spins would have shown it's an earlier model. When they say gates in range that is all they mean, which gates that can get a lock onto. Once Destiny has moved even one meter out of range of a particular gate that's it, no travel to it and back. Main reason the ship was created in the first place was so the Ancients could visit those worlds, the gates are just too far away for them to have locked onto them. Of course that does bring up that question many have asked; Why could they lock onto Destiny in the first place? It must just have been a power issue, after all have we been shown the gates power source yet?

That goes against the canon of the franchise. Range is relation to stargates has nothing to do with how much power is available. All things STP, any gate should be able to connect to any other functioning gate in it's own network. That means, that if a gate is "out of range", then the ship must have left the galaxy. That's we were discussing. Whether or not we thinkg Destiny is in the same galaxy as when the expedition first got on board.

The different power requirments come into play when you start adding chevrons.

[IndyJan]

Still as for the episode, it wasn't too bad overall just too predictable. Is it just me or is Young consistantly shown to be one of the worse possible leaders in a TV show yet? He doesn't seem to quite grasp the notion of leadership, of the greater good... Hell stranding the only guy with the brains to get you home is a good sign your not quite the guy for the job. True Rush would have been a handful if kept on the ship, but serisouly if the crew knew what he had done he'd not be as successul with his little manipulations, and the crew would have atleast had his insight into the technology on board.

As it is Young, in his wisdom, has trapped a bunch of people with little expertise on Ancient technoloy onboard an Ancient ship with problems. That choice alone would have got the guy kicked to the darkend of the ship by any community of people, he's more or less cut there chances of getting home to very slim. And why the hell is Earth still doing next to nothing to get these people home? I thought Stargate command was once populated by a group of "never leave anyone behind" types of people. So far it seems as Earth has said "screw the Destiny"...

There is nothing wrong with Young as a leader. There is no way that Rush wants to get them home, and Young knows this. Rush purposely sent them to the Destiny. He has purposely been sandbagging any chance to get home. Rush wants things his way. It is why he framed Young for the murder. Rush wanted Young removed so that he could do whatever he wanted with no repercussions. Rush knew that someone would probably get hurt or be killed if they sat in that chair. Young asked Rush if he was so certain, then he should do it. Rush backed off because he knew. Rush is a coward, and he doesn't like to have to answer to anyone. The only person that might be able to find a way home, and actually want to get home is Eli. Rush may know what to do, but he won't do it.

[Invisible Painting]

I don't think he knows how to get home, but he knows any plans come up with so far wouldn't have worked, so helped to sabotage them anyway. But yes, if he knew he wouldn't share it. But yeah, I prefer Rush then Young, more interesting. Rush will become an a lot more interesting character when he starts to get followers, then someone like that becomes interesting because they have influence.

[IndyJan]

I don't think he knows how to get home, but he knows any plans come up with so far wouldn't have worked, so helped to sabotage them anyway. But yes, if he knew he wouldn't share it. But yeah, I prefer Rush then Young, more interesting. Rush will become an a lot more interesting character when he starts to get followers, then someone like that becomes interesting because they have influence.

I didn't say Rush wasn't an interesting character, he is. What I said was that Young was a good leader and he knew just what he was doing by marooning Rush. Rush is not helping the team on Destiny at all, because Rush does not want to get home. That is the bottomline. I also agree with you that there will probably be a division on Destiny in the future. I'm not sure if that will help the show or hinder. Right now, they are already at each other. I don't know if they need to be at each other's throats anymore.

[hawkes]

Division between the crew will only help the ratings if they can script it well. The only parts so far i can't work out at all is why Young seems to be reacting like he has constant anger management problems... Would someone like that even be allowed to be in a position of power within any type of military structure?

As for Young being a good leader, perhaps he is. Someone on another board was talking about the show being dark but i think it easily lists some of what i also believe shows Young to be far from a good leader:

It means abandon your principles, your oath that you've sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution and those pesky Bill of Rights where everyone is entitled to Due Process of Law - except for Rush, I guess. Even though you were just granted the right you denied to Rush.

It means abandon the principle of "We don't leave our people behind". Not only abandon, but actually intentionally maroon a man knowing his chance of survival is nearly zero.

Dark means to turn your back on the honor and integrity of those who came before.

I know SGU is supposed to be "dark" and different.

But. Not only would O'Neill never leave a team member behind, he didn't even leave traitors behind. He accepted responsibility for the people he led on missions and did what he could to make certain they returned. And if for some reason they didn't, he went back for them if there was any possibility. Even Maybourne and his crew of traitors.

Young? He just strands a member of his team to die.

All this proves is that Rush is right. Young can't lead except for the fact he's got those damn birds on his shoulders. He can't accept the tough fight and deal with Rush as a man, as a leader. He instead takes the easy way out and leaves him to die rather than lead.

[IndyJan]

Young would not and did not leave Scott behind. He absolutely refused. As far as Rush, he got what was coming to him. He, IMO is a coward. He won't do anything himself, but will manipulate to get others to do things which could harm or kill them. Rush also planted evidence and framed Young for a murder that never happened. This is not a hero, or a good man. This is a man that will do whatever he has to in order to do what he wants, no matter who he has to step on or over to do it. It has been clearly stated from the very first episode that Rush has his own agenda. He is the one that took them to the destiny and stranded them there. He is also the one that has been sabotaging every attempt to get home. It is why Young has asked Eli, on the sly to keep him informed and to keep an eye on what Rush does.

This post has been edited by IndyJan: Dec 29th 2009, 5:39 PM

[Shylodog]

Before a huge debate is brought up on whether Young was right or wrong I have an analogy. Of course, my analogy has to do with a movie some may or may not have seen, but I'll give it anyway...

In War of the Worlds (Tom Cruise Edition) good old Tommy and Dakota are stuck in a basement with Tim Robbins. Now, I don't know of a single person who questioned Tom's actions in dispatching Mr. Robbins. Why? Because Ti'm's plan would involve one major thing: the death of Tom or Dakota to achieve his goal. Since Dakota was his daughter, there was no question that what Tom did was right, regardless of the righteousness of Tim's goal.

Young looks at all of the people on Destiny as his children. Anyone in a leadership role does at some point, and lord knows the civilians on Destiny act like it more often than not. Not to mention that Young's interactions occur most frequently with Eli, Chloe, Johansen and Scott (at least that we've seen). That being said, the moment Rush came clean on his actions and intent, he posed a MAJOR hazard to Young's "kids".

IMHO, Young did what he needed to do, and I probably would have done the same thing. Well, except I MAY have made sure there was no way Rush could return to disprove my story. ;)

[JTMAG1]

What Rush did was mutiny in the most literal sense and was punishible by death.

[Shylodog]

What Rush did was mutiny in the most literal sense and was punishible by death.

Unfortunately, in the USN and USMC, charges like mutiny only apply to military personnel. Civilians won't always know the naval codes and regulations, so are exempt to an extent from their consequenses. In other words, Rush wouldn't be held accountable for mutiny in the way he should.

THAT'S why I totally agree with Young's decision.

[IndyJan]

Unfortunately, in the USN and USMC, charges like mutiny only apply to military personnel. Civilians won't always know the naval codes and regulations, so are exempt to an extent from their consequenses. In other words, Rush wouldn't be held accountable for mutiny in the way he should.

THAT'S why I totally agree with Young's decision.

Yea, we agree. I did like your analogy and yes, I did see the movie, and as a parent, I would have done the exact same thing. With your analogy, Young looks at everyone onboard the Destiny as his children, some military and some civilians. Young wants to get them home safely and as soon as possible. Rush does not. That is the bottomline. And yes, I also agree, since Rush is not military he wouldn't be held to military law. Since I agree with what Young did, that is why I loved him giving Rush a beatdown.

[Shylodog]

Yea, we agree. I did like your analogy and yes, I did see the movie, and as a parent, I would have done the exact same thing. With your analogy, Young looks at everyone onboard the Destiny as his children, some military and some civilians. Young wants to get them home safely and as soon as possible. Rush does not. That is the bottomline. And yes, I also agree, since Rush is not military he wouldn't be held to military law. Since I agree with what Young did, that is why I loved him giving Rush a beatdown.

Indy agrees with me? That can mean only one of two things:

1) Armageddon, or

2) Syzygy has been achieved.

Personally, I don't see any buildings falling down, so I'll go with 2.

[JTMAG1]

Indy agrees with me? That can mean only one of two things:

1) Armageddon, or

2) Syzygy has been achieved.

Personally, I don't see any buildings falling down, so I'll go with 2.

lol, you better get all your thoughts out now, a syzygy only lasts for an instant.

[IndyJan]

Indy agrees with me? That can mean only one of two things:

1) Armageddon, or

2) Syzygy has been achieved.

Personally, I don't see any buildings falling down, so I'll go with 2.

I'll go with #2 as well, because I do not believe that he!! has frozen over either.

[Shylodog]

I'll go with #2 as well, because I do not believe that he!! has frozen over either.

LOL!