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> 508 - The Queen
Rating  3
JTMAG1
post Sep 16th 2008, 7:57 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Sep 16th 2008, 5:46 PM) *

My problem with it wasn't that Kellar could do it simply, it was that ANYONE could. If Beckett had stayed on for the two years, would he be able to do it? No. Why? Because to put it simply it's above us, in terms of what we can do. I wouldn't believe that Beckett could do it, I wouldn't believe Kellar could. It's just unrealistic. And given we have a whole episode dedicated around the fact that we can do that, if we don't buy that, we don't buy the whole episode. That's why I don't like it, because I can't accept the basic concept. In the same way that some people can't accept the basic concept of 3 shot Zat guns, it's just unrealistic.

It's gene therapy. If you have a problem with this, then you have to have a problem with the entire Michael plotline, because they did his to Michael long ago. They do it to each other when they add the ancient gene. It's been a staple of the plot for some time.
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IndyJan
post Sep 17th 2008, 1:40 AM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Sep 16th 2008, 7:46 PM) *

My problem with it wasn't that Kellar could do it simply, it was that ANYONE could. If Beckett had stayed on for the two years, would he be able to do it? No. Why? Because to put it simply it's above us, in terms of what we can do. I wouldn't believe that Beckett could do it, I wouldn't believe Kellar could. It's just unrealistic. And given we have a whole episode dedicated around the fact that we can do that, if we don't buy that, we don't buy the whole episode. That's why I don't like it, because I can't accept the basic concept. In the same way that some people can't accept the basic concept of 3 shot Zat guns, it's just unrealistic.


I don't see it as being to far above us in achieving it. If Beckett had stayed around, they would have constantly been showing him doing something. He was the one involved with the therapy that was given to Michael. He (his clone) was the one involved with Michael and the Hoffan drug. Beckett was also the one involved with the Ancient gene therapy from the very beginning. With Beckett there was history there. With Keller there is nothing. It's just wham-bam in one episode, it's done we can do it. I do not buy it in any fashion. They have not been able to convince me that Keller is all that intelligent. It was a dumb plot device to try and move the show along. For me, it just did not work.
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Wisdonplusone
post Sep 17th 2008, 2:07 AM
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A suspension of belief is required when watching all TV, especially sci-fi so why not sit back and enjoy the interchanges between Todd and Tayla. She really acted real growth in her character from being unsure whether she could pull it off to playing "chicken" against Todd and winning.

I just assumed that they surgically altered Tayla and relied on her wraith DNA and ability to "mind-meld" with the wraith to protect her. I can't believe that they didn't see Todd's doublecross coming...have they no memory?

I have to wonder what would happen if Todd and Michael were to meet: with Todd's new powerful position how soon will it be before he goes after Michael? He really is a bigger menace to the wraith than the Atlantas team.
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Pitry
post Sep 17th 2008, 3:22 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Sep 17th 2008, 3:57 AM) *

It's gene therapy. If you have a problem with this, then you have to have a problem with the entire Michael plotline, because they did his to Michael long ago. They do it to each other when they add the ancient gene. It's been a staple of the plot for some time.


*raises hand* uh, I have a problem with the whole Michael storyline.. ;)
But from what understand, this isn't what they did to Michael - what they did to Michael was essentially make the wraith DNA inactive, and so hsi external appearance became human. I don't think they activated the wraith DNA in Teyla, unlike Mihcael she still remained herself, had all her memories etc.


QUOTE(IndyJan @ Sep 17th 2008, 9:40 AM) *

I don't see it as being to far above us in achieving it. If Beckett had stayed around, they would have constantly been showing him doing something. He was the one involved with the therapy that was given to Michael. He (his clone) was the one involved with Michael and the Hoffan drug. Beckett was also the one involved with the Ancient gene therapy from the very beginning. With Beckett there was history there. With Keller there is nothing. It's just wham-bam in one episode, it's done we can do it. I do not buy it in any fashion. They have not been able to convince me that Keller is all that intelligent. It was a dumb plot device to try and move the show along. For me, it just did not work.


TBH, it was one of those plot-device bombs, i.e "we need this and we need this now" without thinking of inserting hints about it earlier on, so I don't think we would have seen anything different had it been Carson.
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OdinisThor'sDad
post Sep 18th 2008, 5:37 AM
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Could it be? Are the writers going to use Teyla as a real character and not a shrub?

Amazing. This has been the only Teyla centered episode I've enjoyed. My hat's off to the writers for getting a clue.



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JTMAG1
post Sep 18th 2008, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Sep 16th 2008, 11:40 PM) *

I don't see it as being to far above us in achieving it. If Beckett had stayed around, they would have constantly been showing him doing something. He was the one involved with the therapy that was given to Michael. He (his clone) was the one involved with Michael and the Hoffan drug. Beckett was also the one involved with the Ancient gene therapy from the very beginning. With Beckett there was history there. With Keller there is nothing. It's just wham-bam in one episode, it's done we can do it. I do not buy it in any fashion. They have not been able to convince me that Keller is all that intelligent. It was a dumb plot device to try and move the show along. For me, it just did not work.

You're insinuating that Kellar just takes over Beckett's job and doesn't look at any of the standing research?

QUOTE(Pitry @ Sep 17th 2008, 1:22 AM) *

*raises hand* uh, I have a problem with the whole Michael storyline.. ;)
But from what understand, this isn't what they did to Michael - what they did to Michael was essentially make the wraith DNA inactive, and so hsi external appearance became human. I don't think they activated the wraith DNA in Teyla, unlike Mihcael she still remained herself, had all her memories etc.

Well, inititally they deactivated all of the Wraith DNA in Michael, and then Michael just deactivated just the part of the DNA for feeding on humans. Then we found that research and offered it to Todd.

QUOTE
TBH, it was one of those plot-device bombs, i.e "we need this and we need this now" without thinking of inserting hints about it earlier on, so I don't think we would have seen anything different had it been Carson.

I agree. Just like the first Michael episode. They just say, "remeber that one time Sheppard almost turned into a Wraith... well, I've been working on it behind the scenes and now I can turn a wraith into a human."
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Dafmeister
post Oct 7th 2008, 3:24 PM
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A good episode at last. Todd is always a good addition to the show, you never really know what the writers are going to do with him.
I think the whole thing with Ronon constantly drawing his gun against the Wraith is getting old now. He's not a dumb character so surely he knows that always being on the verge of killing one is going to get the team in a heap of crap.
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Pitry
post Oct 7th 2008, 6:21 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Sep 18th 2008, 5:33 PM) *

Well, inititally they deactivated all of the Wraith DNA in Michael, and then Michael just deactivated just the part of the DNA for feeding on humans. Then we found that research and offered it to Todd.



I meant... Teyla didn't become a wraith in the same way Michael became human - he really did ebcome human, emotions, behaviour, memory loss, the whole thing. Teyla is still herself, just looking like a wraith it looked more like plastic surgery than anythign substential.


QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Oct 7th 2008, 10:24 PM) *


I think the whole thing with Ronon constantly drawing his gun against the Wraith is getting old now. He's not a dumb character so surely he knows that always being on the verge of killing one is going to get the team in a heap of crap.


I agree - Ronon can be a wonderful character, unfortunately it seems he isn't allowed to develop. sad.gif
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JTMAG1
post Oct 8th 2008, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Oct 7th 2008, 4:21 PM) *

I meant... Teyla didn't become a wraith in the same way Michael became human - he really did ebcome human, emotions, behaviour, memory loss, the whole thing. Teyla is still herself, just looking like a wraith it looked more like plastic surgery than anythign substential.
I agree - Ronon can be a wonderful character, unfortunately it seems he isn't allowed to develop. sad.gif

Thats just circumstantial. The Wraith have emotions. We see anger, and fear. Michael shows us resentment. He's vindictive. If it weren't for the amnesia, he would have had all the same emotions that he had when he was a Wraith.
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IndyJan
post Oct 8th 2008, 3:32 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Oct 7th 2008, 3:24 PM) *

I think the whole thing with Ronon constantly drawing his gun against the Wraith is getting old now. He's not a dumb character so surely he knows that always being on the verge of killing one is going to get the team in a heap of crap.


I agree, by now, Ronon should be able to accept certain things. Yes, I know his whole planet/world was wiped out by the Wraith. It was understandable that he would feel resentment and want to kill them all at all cost. But he's been fighting them for 3 and a half years now. He can be cautious, but he shouldn't have to pull his weapon at all times.

QUOTE
You're insinuating that Kellar just takes over Beckett's job and doesn't look at any of the standing research?


Edit: I didn't say that, what I'm saying is that they have not convinced me that Keller does anything with the science and research that is available. They try, but I'm not buying it. Lets face it, she was signed because of her looks. Whereas with Carson, they showed him in the lab all the time. They do not do that with Keller and now they are trying to turn her into a romantic triangle with McKay and Ronon. So that takes you away from the whole science/lab issue again. Sorry, but you will never convince me that Keller is a fit for this show. She just isn't, IMO.


This post has been edited by IndyJan: Oct 8th 2008, 3:37 PM
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Pitry
post Oct 8th 2008, 4:43 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Oct 8th 2008, 7:00 PM) *

Thats just circumstantial. The Wraith have emotions. We see anger, and fear. Michael shows us resentment. He's vindictive. If it weren't for the amnesia, he would have had all the same emotions that he had when he was a Wraith.



And yet, he acts very human in Michael. Being the big man - coming to Ronon and asking his forgiveness for whatever it was he did, even though he does't remember... do you see a proud, proud wraith EVER doing something like that? trying to blend in?
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JTMAG1
post Oct 8th 2008, 6:38 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Oct 8th 2008, 2:43 PM) *

And yet, he acts very human in Michael. Being the big man - coming to Ronon and asking his forgiveness for whatever it was he did, even though he does't remember... do you see a proud, proud wraith EVER doing something like that? trying to blend in?

Thats not a human thing. Most humans don't do a good job "manning up" to their mistakes. Thats why you are calling it very human.. because it's abnormal.

You named another Wraith emotion.. .pride.
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Pitry
post Oct 9th 2008, 5:29 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Oct 9th 2008, 1:38 AM) *

Thats not a human thing. Most humans don't do a good job "manning up" to their mistakes. Thats why you are calling it very human.. because it's abnormal.

You named another Wraith emotion.. .pride.


He didn't go a good job, I actually thought it was a very human - as in common, bad attempt ;)

This post has been edited by Pitry: Oct 9th 2008, 5:30 AM
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JTMAG1
post Oct 9th 2008, 8:32 AM
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I just had another thought about the Wrait having emotions. Todd makes jokes all the time. He told the team, "I hope the fruit is as delicious as the farmers that grew them". I totally disagree with the notion that the having emotions is a difference between humans and Wraith.
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IndyJan
post Oct 9th 2008, 1:38 PM
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I would tend to think that Wraith having emotions, comes from their human side, not bug side. smile.gif
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Pitry
post Oct 9th 2008, 3:04 PM
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Oooooooh!
I get it now!

Sorry JTMAGONE, I misunderstood you.

I never said the Wraith don't have emotions - well, I dind't mean to say it. I meant the nature of their emotions, how they feel them, what are the emotions they're most likely to feel, how they're going to act because of these emotions - the same things that you find variations on in different societies, but a lot more pronounced between Wraith and humans.
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JTMAG1
post Oct 9th 2008, 4:33 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Oct 9th 2008, 1:04 PM) *

Oooooooh!
I get it now!

Sorry JTMAGONE, I misunderstood you.

I never said the Wraith don't have emotions - well, I dind't mean to say it. I meant the nature of their emotions, how they feel them, what are the emotions they're most likely to feel, how they're going to act because of these emotions - the same things that you find variations on in different societies, but a lot more pronounced between Wraith and humans.

OK, now we're on the same page. I did think you meant that they didn't have emotions. Yes, I agree with you. We didn't know Michael before the experiment, but judging from his other behaviour, and the way the other Wraith act, I agree, they did change the range of his emotions.
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IndyJan
post Oct 9th 2008, 6:33 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Oct 9th 2008, 4:33 PM) *

OK, now we're on the same page. I did think you meant that they didn't have emotions. Yes, I agree with you. We didn't know Michael before the experiment, but judging from his other behaviour, and the way the other Wraith act, I agree, they did change the range of his emotions.


I think that is a given since we know that they tapped into his humanside and tried to downplay the Wraith side. We also know that he didn't revert back to the stereotypical looking Wraith. I think that also turns off the other Wraith. It also makes him stand out.
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Parmenides
post Dec 18th 2008, 1:39 PM
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Whoa whoa, did they REALLY need to say Teyla was surgically altered to look like a Wraith? That was quite possibly the least believable thing the show has ever done. They should have just shipped in the best and the brightest cosmetic artists from Earth, and have them make Teyla a realistic Wraith mask, Doubtfire-style. 1.gif

That said, I did really enjoy the episode. It had good twists, the dialogue was excellent, and Teyla as a queen just kicked ass. I would've preferred more of that, and less of the team fretting over her.

I choose to believe the knife that Todd stabbed the Primary with was dipped in some sort of Wraith poison - the Hoffan virus, perhaps. There's just no way a Wraith QUEEN would die so easily.
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