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> 419 - The Kindred (Part Two)
Rating  4
Arcady
post Feb 29th 2008, 7:55 PM
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Season 4, Episode 19 - The Kindred (Part Two)
Air date: February 29, 2008

An old friend's return spurs a race against time to rescue a missing teammate.

Episode Guide | Spoilers | Teaser

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
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Protoziggy90
post Feb 29th 2008, 11:35 PM
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This episode was pretty good for me.

I expected that Teyla would be rescued by the end and was pleasantly surprised when she wasn't. I feel so terrible for her, I really can't imagine the pain she must be in...

I feel like the episode was somewhat melodramatic with the Carson issue, and having him in stasis at the end was sorta a cop-out. Now they can just bring him back whenever they want and it bothers me to know that he is just standing there in the city until TPTB decide to do something with him.

Also, I am happy that some of the Athosians were saved. It is unfortunate that so many were killed.
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Reignfire
post Feb 29th 2008, 11:37 PM
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It was a good continuation from last episode. TBH, I originally figured Carson would be disposed of by the end of the episode. I'm glad he wasn't and that it was left open for the actor to come back later.

One thing that bugs me is that if Wraith having cloning technology (I'm assuming that's where Michael got it from) and their food source is being contaminated, why don't they clone uninfected humans?

This post has been edited by Reignfire: Feb 29th 2008, 11:51 PM
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JTMAG1
post Mar 1st 2008, 2:13 AM
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I thought this episode ws supremely just ok. It feels like the story didn't really move forward at all.

I have no idea where they are going with the Teyla/Michael plot. I hope it's not a dead end.

I know once they established that he was a clone, there was going to be some degenerative dehabilitation. I expected them to find the Beckett solution in Michael's lab, but I guess that would be too simple.
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IndyJan
post Mar 1st 2008, 3:32 AM
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I love Carson. I always have. I was extremely upset when they killed him off. Why am I not surprised that it wasn't the "real" Carson, but a clone, which is what Maluzzi said it wouldn't be? blink.gif

At first I thought great, they just brought him back so that we can watch him die again, but they didn't do that. When Carson said he had been there for almost 2 years, the explanation made sense as to how it happened. I would have preferred that the clone had died, not the real one.

It was nice to see the Carson and Rodney interaction. Carson being upset that they had told his mother was spot on for the character. It was nice to see Ronon finally unbend a little at the end with Carson. This episode gave us a hint of how the RepliWeir would be received back at Atlantis. Elizabeth told John that it would be awkward, and it was for most everyone.

Since Rachel needed time off for her pregnancy, I wasn't surprised that she wasn't found and rescued right away. I'm pleased that some of the Athosians survived. Whatever happened to Halling's son?

Does the Atlantian team know how to keep someone in the stasis pod? I remember from SG1, Jack couldn't remain in one for long. He was deteriorating. Thor had to get him out.

So TPTB will bring back Carson when it's convenient for them.
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KillerMarv
post Mar 1st 2008, 5:11 AM
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Well, what can I say about this one. I didn't feel too much progress from last week's episode. That is story arc-wise.

When they said that Carson was a clone, I thought for sure that they would just kill him by the end of the episode, or make it impossible to see him again in the future, but like in all Atlantis episodes so far, no main character actually "dies". We have Ford somewhere in the Pegasus plotting who knows what, we have a version of Weir somewhere plotting who knows what, and now we have a Carson clone in a stasis pod awaiting for the writers to give him a chance sometime in the future. I can't say I love that, but there is a level of "like" in it for sure.
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Revan
post Mar 1st 2008, 7:29 AM
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Hah. Beckett felt like a dog's breakfast... Nice. smile.gif

Awwww... crying.gif Another goodbye... Talk about a melancholy reunion.

I really liked this episode.

I think so far, the Michael storylines have been the best. Now we know why he wants the baby also. I thought it might have something to do with the fusion of wraith and human DNA.

QUOTE(IndyJan @ Mar 1st 2008, 3:32 AM) *

Does the Atlantian team know how to keep someone in the stasis pod? I remember from SG1, Jack couldn't remain in one for long. He was deteriorating. Thor had to get him out.

They didn't want to leave him in there, because the Ancient database was tearing apart his mind, even if it was slowed waaay down.
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Raxor
post Mar 1st 2008, 8:44 AM
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I kind of wish it was the actual carson and the one that killed was a clone - i guess ive been watching ds9 lately where the good dr bashir was revealed as a changling some 7 episodes later heh.

Eitheway it was good to watch and nice to know what michaels plans are finally. I actually thought he would be dead at the end - it would have been more tragic for the crew as they saw their friend die for a second time.

Both parts gets a solid ***1/2
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Revan
post Mar 1st 2008, 8:51 AM
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QUOTE(Raxor @ Mar 1st 2008, 8:44 AM) *

I kind of wish it was the actual carson and the one that killed was a clone - i guess ive been watching ds9 lately where the good dr bashir was revealed as a changling some 7 episodes later heh.

Eitheway it was good to watch and nice to know what michaels plans are finally. I actually thought he would be dead at the end - it would have been more tragic for the crew as they saw their friend die for a second time.

Both parts gets a solid ***1/2

Yeah but that guy tried to destroy the Bajoran system...

I expected Teyla to be rescued by somebody. I didn't expect the mind control thing until the very last moment.
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Invisible Painting
post Mar 1st 2008, 1:07 PM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Mar 1st 2008, 8:32 AM) *

I love Carson. I always have. I was extremely upset when they killed him off. Why am I not surprised that it wasn't the "real" Carson, but a clone, which is what Maluzzi said it wouldn't be? blink.gif

No, he didn't. Mallozzi said that it wouldn't be an AU version, a time travelling version and that it would be Carson in the flesh and blood. He was just paraphrased by a couple of people and then big news sites were claiming he also said he wasn't cloned. He never said that.

QUOTE(IndyJan @ Mar 1st 2008, 8:32 AM) *
Does the Atlantian team know how to keep someone in the stasis pod? I remember from SG1, Jack couldn't remain in one for long. He was deteriorating. Thor had to get him out.

Nah the pod was working fine, Thor thored him out from the pod (yes the spelling was intentional) before he revived him. He thawed him out, he worked on the replicator weapon and then when his mind couldn't hold the knowledge anymore Thor took it out of him and revived him properly. But the pod was working fine.

QUOTE(Revan @ Mar 1st 2008, 12:29 PM) *

Hah. Beckett felt like a dog's breakfast... Nice. smile.gif

Yeah I noticed that reference wink.gif

But overall, a good episode. Not a FANTASTIC episode or anything as realistically....nothing happened. Michael still has Teyla, Michael still has hybrids. Becketts back in stasis. What did happen? Not much. It wasn't a bad episode, but thinking that 40 minutes occured and only two real details were changed it was a bit weird. I was suprised Teyla was whisked away with Michael at the end though, I thought she would be recovered. But I'm glad she wasn't, opens up new story possibilities for either next episode or season 5 (I don't know if this is carried on next ep, and don't want to know) and hopefully it means we will see more Michael soon.

Becketts end though, I'm hoping that, given that next season...
» Click to Show Spoiler «


But overall, quite good, 6-7/10 maybe. But not in a really bad way...

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Mar 1st 2008, 1:09 PM
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IndyJan
post Mar 1st 2008, 8:55 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Mar 1st 2008, 7:29 AM) *

They didn't want to leave him in there, because the Ancient database was tearing apart his mind, even if it was slowed waaay down.


You're right, I had forgotten that Jack had downloaded the Ancient database. Consequently, he had to be removed so that Thor could remove the knowledge.

QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Mar 1st 2008, 1:07 PM) *

No, he didn't. Mallozzi said that it wouldn't be an AU version, a time travelling version and that it would be Carson in the flesh and blood. He was just paraphrased by a couple of people and then big news sites were claiming he also said he wasn't cloned. He never said that.

Becketts end though, I'm hoping that, given that next season...
» Click to Show Spoiler «



Okay, I know that I read somewhere on this site that Malozzi said it would not be a AU, replicator or clone, but Carson in the flesh. Maybe someone just paraphrased what Malozzi said.

As far as next season
» Click to Show Spoiler «

I don't trust anything that Malozzi says. They made the decision to kill off Beckett and there was so much fan backlash for it, they immediately tried to backpedal and save him, somehow, someway. I just wish as I stated in my first post that it had been the clone that was killed and not the real one. I so wanted this to be the 'REAL' Beckett.

No matter what, it was good to see Beckett again. I just love that character. Like I said it was good to see everyone, especially Rodney relate to him. It would have been nice to have a scene between Beckett and Zelenka as well.

This was not a great episode, but then it's not the season ender. It was good though simply because of Beckett. I gave it 3 out of 5 stars.
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Revan
post Mar 2nd 2008, 6:38 AM
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I think that, had it been a clone that was killed, it might become hollow or empty, and they were worried about that happening.
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Invisible Painting
post Mar 2nd 2008, 10:19 AM
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I think that having the clone blow up (while part of me was hoping this was the real Beckett as well) would have taken away from season 3 somewhat by saying the Beckett we saw for nearly a year was just a copy. I don't think they wanted that, it still gives the Sunday episode depth though and maintains it's original feel and consequence. While it is slightly dissapointing that we will only be seeing the clone Beckett from now on, we still get to see Beckett from now on out.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Mar 2nd 2008, 10:19 AM
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kordone
post Mar 2nd 2008, 10:26 PM
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Little nitpick, when Carson was told that Weir had died sacrificing herself to save the rest of the team from the replicators, Beckett shouldn't have known what Mckay was talking about because the way TPTB set it out this clone Beckett would not have yet met the Replicators. biggrin.gif
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JTMAG1
post Mar 2nd 2008, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE(kordone @ Mar 2nd 2008, 10:26 PM) *

Little nitpick, when Carson was told that Weir had died sacrificing herself to save the rest of the team from the replicators, Beckett shouldn't have known what Mckay was talking about because the way TPTB set it out this clone Beckett would not have yet met the Replicators. biggrin.gif

Well, he understood the important part of the conversation was that she died. Rodney could very well have said, "Weir was killed in a car accident"... it would have had the same effect on Carson. But you're right, They met the replicators 2 or 3 eps later I believe.
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Dave312
post Mar 2nd 2008, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE(kordone @ Mar 3rd 2008, 2:26 PM) *

Little nitpick, when Carson was told that Weir had died sacrificing herself to save the rest of the team from the replicators, Beckett shouldn't have known what Mckay was talking about because the way TPTB set it out this clone Beckett would not have yet met the Replicators. biggrin.gif

Yeah I noticed that too. But Beckett could of had a run in with them while he was with Micheal.

I'm a little unsure about this episode. I wouldn't say it sucked but I also wouldn't it was really good either. I find that although I liked having Beckett back, it just wasn't the same. Knowing that he was a clone in the back of my mind made this episode just not feel right. It's rather a 'Cheat' way of bringing him back. If they went back on Sunday and changed what 'really' happened, then I reckon it could have gone down better. But as others have said, would have completely destroyed the meaning of that episode. If they had gone down with the other option and made this the real Beckett and the one that died in the explosion a clone then it would have made season 3 less... important(?). I can't think of the right word. I guess what I'm basically saying is that Carson just should have stayed dead. There's really no way to bring him back without making it feel like a cheat.

On the other side, I did enjoy seeing Micheal again and seeing the Athosians. I look forward to seeing them again.
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Revan
post Mar 2nd 2008, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE(kordone @ Mar 2nd 2008, 10:26 PM) *

Little nitpick, when Carson was told that Weir had died sacrificing herself to save the rest of the team from the replicators, Beckett shouldn't have known what Mckay was talking about because the way TPTB set it out this clone Beckett would not have yet met the Replicators. biggrin.gif

It's always possible they filled him in on the Asurans, or Michael may have told him about them.


QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Mar 2nd 2008, 10:44 PM) *

Well, he understood the important part of the conversation was that she died. Rodney could very well have said, "Weir was killed in a car accident"... it would have had the same effect on Carson. But you're right, They met the replicators 2 or 3 eps later I believe.

Wasn't it like four episodes into the next season or something?
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Dave312
post Mar 2nd 2008, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Mar 3rd 2008, 3:25 PM) *

Wasn't it like four episodes into the next season or something?

The episode where Micheal was on the planet with all the other Human/Wraith was S03E02 and the episode where they meet the Asurans was S03E06. Four episodes difference but same season.
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KillerMarv
post Mar 3rd 2008, 2:37 AM
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Well, he wouldn't know anything about Atlantis, but the Replicators were big news, and I believe they were big enough to be heard from anywhere. Michael was not that isolated. His little group could have been in touch with events from all over the galaxy still.
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IndyJan
post Mar 3rd 2008, 3:50 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Mar 3rd 2008, 2:37 AM) *

Well, he wouldn't know anything about Atlantis, but the Replicators were big news, and I believe they were big enough to be heard from anywhere. Michael was not that isolated. His little group could have been in touch with events from all over the galaxy still.


Yes they could. Even Solan (sp), the man that they took back to Atlantis said, "Michael will find me. He has spies everywhere." It made me wonder if Michael had a spy on Atlantis?
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post Mar 3rd 2008, 6:26 AM
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This wasn't a bad episode, but I did feel let down after last week. I felt like the Carson storyline should have been more emotional, but it just didn't feel that way. Maybe that was just me... Anyhow, I'm just hoping they acutally use the Carson clone for a good storyline and not someone to just add a whitty comment to an occassional episode.
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Revan
post Mar 3rd 2008, 7:31 AM
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QUOTE(Dave312 @ Mar 2nd 2008, 11:44 PM) *

The episode where Micheal was on the planet with all the other Human/Wraith was S03E02 and the episode where they meet the Asurans was S03E06. Four episodes difference but same season.

I mean Carson died in S3, so he wouldn't have known about the Asurans at the time.
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post Mar 3rd 2008, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Mar 3rd 2008, 7:31 AM) *

I mean Carson died in S3, so he wouldn't have known about the Asurans at the time.

I think the point was that the Asurans came about in Season three before the original Carson died, but but the events where he was cloned occured before Progeny. Kordone's nitpick was that the cloned Carson wouldn't have known about Progeny or any of the events after that from the Atlantis point of view.
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post Mar 3rd 2008, 2:08 PM
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QUOTE(kordone @ Mar 3rd 2008, 3:26 AM) *

Little nitpick, when Carson was told that Weir had died sacrificing herself to save the rest of the team from the replicators, Beckett shouldn't have known what Mckay was talking about because the way TPTB set it out this clone Beckett would not have yet met the Replicators. biggrin.gif

I agree with JT he wouldn't have sat there and said "Who are the replicators as A) He may have heard about the SG-1 Replicators (infact probably did) and thought they meant them. And he would have focussed on the Weir part, that part shocked him more then the fact that a new race may potentially be out there.

QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Mar 3rd 2008, 7:37 AM) *

Well, he wouldn't know anything about Atlantis, but the Replicators were big news, and I believe they were big enough to be heard from anywhere. Michael was not that isolated. His little group could have been in touch with events from all over the galaxy still.

I doubt Michael would keep Carson up to date with all the events in the galaxy, why would he need to?
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