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> 414 - Harmony
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KillerMarv
post Jan 30th 2008, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Jan 30th 2008, 7:29 PM) *

Weren't the Genii trying to re-establish trade between their planet and Harmony's, by killing Harmony? If so, it would seem it was the official Genii and not some rogue faction that attacked them.


Could be. But again, it could be not. Remember NID (or a rogue faction inside them called The Trust), and how many jobs they tried to pull off (including stealing technology from other planets) just for the interest of the entire planet, or so they said they were? 1.gif

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Rogue Ashrak
post Jan 30th 2008, 2:38 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 31st 2008, 3:37 AM) *

That is a decent theory, but if that were the case, there should have been a chair on Dakara, since it was the first place they set up shop. I'm sure that would have taken time.


Sorry, how do you know Dakara was the first place "they set up shop"? (I assume you mean, first place they settled in the Milky Way or something). I don't remember that being stated in the show, but my memory could just be fuzzy.

Even so, just because it was first doesn't mean there would automatically be a chair their. Earth was important to the Ancients, that why they had an outpost in Antarctica. The only thing of importance on Dakara was their giant doomsday device....which was probably built specifically as their last ditch measure against the plague, meaning it was built just around the time Atlantis left Earth, not earlier in my theorized Ancient-Ori war.

I don't see how a lack of a chair in Dakara in any way contradicts my theory.

QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 4:59 AM) *


Could be. But again, it could be not. Remember NID (or a rogue faction inside them called The Trust), and how many jobs they tried to pull off (including stealing technology from other planets) just for the interest of the entire planet, or so they said they were?


I agree, I'd say they were rogue, after all they were getting paid, like mercenaries. That doesn't sound like Genii just following orders. More like the dissafected members of Kolya's faction that we saw in Irresponsible

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KillerMarv
post Jan 30th 2008, 3:07 PM
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QUOTE(Rogue Ashrak @ Jan 30th 2008, 9:38 PM) *

Sorry, how do you know Dakara was the first place "they set up shop"? (I assume you mean, first place they settled in the Milky Way or something). I don't remember that being stated in the show, but my memory could just be fuzzy.

Even so, just because it was first doesn't mean there would automatically be a chair their. Earth was important to the Ancients, that why they had an outpost in Antarctica. The only thing of importance on Dakara was their giant doomsday device....which was probably built specifically as their last ditch measure against the plague, meaning it was built just around the time Atlantis left Earth, not earlier in my theorized Ancient-Ori war.

I don't see how a lack of a chair in Dakara in any way contradicts my theory.


Than again, we don't even know if there is or there's not a chair console on Dakara. SG-1 didn't have time to explore the entire area, and after their success against the Replicators, the Jaffa took it over as their capital city. They certainly wouldn't have permitted the SGC to send archaeologists to search the mountain. A season later, the mountain was destroyed, and although the chair could have been under it, it's gonna be mighty difficult to search for it now. whistling.gif

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JTMAG1
post Jan 30th 2008, 3:48 PM
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QUOTE(Rogue Ashrak @ Jan 30th 2008, 2:38 PM) *

Sorry, how do you know Dakara was the first place "they set up shop"? (I assume you mean, first place they settled in the Milky Way or something). I don't remember that being stated in the show, but my memory could just be fuzzy.

Even so, just because it was first doesn't mean there would automatically be a chair their. Earth was important to the Ancients, that why they had an outpost in Antarctica. The only thing of importance on Dakara was their giant doomsday device....which was probably built specifically as their last ditch measure against the plague, meaning it was built just around the time Atlantis left Earth, not earlier in my theorized Ancient-Ori war.

I don't see how a lack of a chair in Dakara in any way contradicts my theory.



I agree, I'd say they were rogue, after all they were getting paid, like mercenaries. That doesn't sound like Genii just following orders. More like the dissafected members of Kolya's faction that we saw in Irresponsible

It's always been my opinion that the Alterrans did not settle on Earth first. Just based on Earth's position in the galaxy and proximity to other planets. Also the fact that the device which they used to create/recreate life was there, and not on Earth. It also buggs me that there were other places in the MW with working ZPMs, when the one on Earth was completed depleted. And, on top of that.
MOVIE SPOILERS
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KillerMarv
post Jan 30th 2008, 3:55 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 30th 2008, 10:48 PM) *

It's always been my opinion that the Alterrans did not settle on Earth first. Just based on Earth's position in the galaxy and proximity to other planets. Also the fact that the device which they used to create/recreate life was there, and not on Earth. It also buggs me that there were other places in the MW with working ZPMs, when the one on Earth was completed depleted.


Well, it doesn't make that much sense that the Ancients would set their first base in the MW on Dakara. If that is what happened, why aren't there more traces of their presence there besides that mountain and beloved weapon.

Also, if Dakara is closer to the majority of planets in the MW, it must be closer to the center of the galaxy. I don't think that anyone who moves to a new galaxy starts off from the middle. I say an outskirt world would be more appropriate.

The spoiler from the movie does not interest me. If the key to this argument lies in a spoiler, than you'll have to wait more until you make your point. Until then, it didn't happen. whistling.gif
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Dafmeister
post Jan 30th 2008, 4:15 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 30th 2008, 8:48 PM) *
It also buggs me that there were other places in the MW with working ZPMs, when the one on Earth was completed depleted.
That could suggest the ZPMs were in use longer than those on other planets, indication the Ancients were present on Earth earlier.
The lack of Naquada also suggests that the Ancients produced their Stargates on Earth, possibly showing Earth was the first planet they settled.


QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 30th 2008, 8:55 PM) *
The spoiler from the movie does not interest me. If the key to this argument lies in a spoiler, than you'll have to wait more until you make your point. Until then, it didn't happen.
You can't deny a spoiler just because it is a spoiler. If you don't want to read it that is up to you but the information in the spoiler is still valid.
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KillerMarv
post Jan 30th 2008, 4:28 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 30th 2008, 11:15 PM) *

You can't deny a spoiler just because it is a spoiler. If you don't want to read it that is up to you but the information in the spoiler is still valid.


No, that is not fair. The information may be valid, but since I won't be able to read it, you can't base your argument on that information. It will be like talking to a wall. If it's okay for you to read spoilers, that's fine, but don't think that gives you an advantage when it comes to pointing out something. biggrin.gif
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JTMAG1
post Jan 30th 2008, 5:15 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 30th 2008, 4:28 PM) *

No, that is not fair. The information may be valid, but since I won't be able to read it, you can't base your argument on that information. It will be like talking to a wall. If it's okay for you to read spoilers, that's fine, but don't think that gives you an advantage when it comes to pointing out something. biggrin.gif

Well, based on the rules of spoiler discussion here, talking about SGA season 4 should still be ocurring in spoilers in other threads here, if that is the case, if the information in those spoilers not valid?

My spoilers only have a few words that prove my point without giving up any plot details. I put it in spoiler tags out of courtesy for those that are sensative to such things (like me)
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 30th 2008, 6:15 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 30th 2008, 9:28 PM) *

No, that is not fair. The information may be valid, but since I won't be able to read it, you can't base your argument on that information. It will be like talking to a wall. If it's okay for you to read spoilers, that's fine, but don't think that gives you an advantage when it comes to pointing out something. biggrin.gif

But the point is you are still trying to convince someone a point of view with evidence you know they won't read, seems kinda pointless to present it whistling.gif

Things that are in spoilers as long as they're 100% confirmed then yes they are accurate and can be used, but unless the person it willing to read it it won't help out such arguments.
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KillerMarv
post Jan 30th 2008, 6:25 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 31st 2008, 12:15 AM) *

Well, based on the rules of spoiler discussion here, talking about SGA season 4 should still be ocurring in spoilers in other threads here, if that is the case, if the information in those spoilers not valid?

My spoilers only have a few words that prove my point without giving up any plot details. I put it in spoiler tags out of courtesy for those that are sensative to such things (like me)


If you read my post once again, you will see that I said the information is valid. It's just not valid to me for the time being, as it is in spoiler tags. Maybe Rogue will read the spoiler and use the evidence. smile.gif

It doesn't matter if you give plot details or not. That is still a spoiler (it's an element from a movie that's yet to be released), and I refuse to read it ( 1.gif ). Until I see the movie, your spoilerish point of view won't matter to me. It doesn't mean that I will never accept it, only that I won't accept it for the time being. 1.gif
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JTMAG1
post Jan 30th 2008, 8:23 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Jan 30th 2008, 6:15 PM) *

But the point is you are still trying to convince someone a point of view with evidence you know they won't read, seems kinda pointless to present it whistling.gif

Things that are in spoilers as long as they're 100% confirmed then yes they are accurate and can be used, but unless the person it willing to read it it won't help out such arguments.

I don't always remember who will and will not read spoilers before I post them.
My spoiler is 100% confirmed.

QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 30th 2008, 6:25 PM) *

If you read my post once again, you will see that I said the information is valid. It's just not valid to me for the time being, as it is in spoiler tags. Maybe Rogue will read the spoiler and use the evidence. smile.gif

It doesn't matter if you give plot details or not. That is still a spoiler (it's an element from a movie that's yet to be released), and I refuse to read it ( 1.gif ). Until I see the movie, your spoilerish point of view won't matter to me. It doesn't mean that I will never accept it, only that I won't accept it for the time being. 1.gif

I was just elaborating on it for others. Believe me, I always think my points are valid 1.gif But I understand your POV, because I don't usually read spoilers myself.

I just really hope they don't get rid of this mini drone idea like so many others.
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 30th 2008, 8:43 PM
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One thing I may as well post, from Joe Mallozzi himself responding to a fan question on his blog:
QUOTE(http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/)

Prior of the Ori writes: “McKay said that the planet was where they first developed Drone technology, does this mean they never had it back in the Milky Way?”

Answer: No, that was an oversight. The drone technology was developed in the Milky Way, but the mini-drone version was perfected in Pegasus.


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KillerMarv
post Jan 31st 2008, 3:06 AM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Jan 31st 2008, 3:43 AM) *

One thing I may as well post, from Joe Mallozzi himself responding to a fan question on his blog:


Well, thank you for that quote. I guess Mallozzi had to fill the plot hole that was left after this episode. I don't know why was it so hard to just include the line "this is where the Ancients first developed the mini-drone technology" instead of "this is where the Ancients first developed the drone technology" that McKay said. Although it still doesn't sound that right. whistling.gif
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lancelot2
post Jan 31st 2008, 11:18 AM
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the thing i don't get is if they weren't using them for hand weapons then what would the ancients need mini drones for. unless they were going to be an automated defence for there cities against ground troops?
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KillerMarv
post Jan 31st 2008, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE(lancelot2 @ Jan 31st 2008, 6:18 PM) *

the thing i don't get is if they weren't using them for hand weapons then what would the ancients need mini drones for. unless they were going to be an automated defence for there cities against ground troops?


There you go. You've answered your own question. There was no need for that post, was there? 1.gif

The real question is... how successful the device really is? That is, how close to what it was meant to be did the Ancients manage to bring their device? biggrin.gif
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JTMAG1
post Jan 31st 2008, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 11:22 AM) *

There you go. You've answered your own question. There was no need for that post, was there? 1.gif

The real question is... how successful the device really is? That is, how close to what it was meant to be did the Ancients manage to bring their device? biggrin.gif

Well, the device was set to auto patrol, and it seemed to only attack the bad guys. I don't know what would happen if the bad guys actually had the gene. It had the standed Ancient neural interface, but it was far from the gate, and far from the city. If someone was under attack, how would they get there in time to help?
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 31st 2008, 12:40 PM
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Well it may have been there simply as a testing ground, the device on this planet wasn't meant to attack anyone that could come through the gate, it was just meant to test it there. There may be other planets where sensitive research was happening where the mini dones were used to help protect it.

And yeah Lancelot you pretty much answered your own question wink.gif
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KillerMarv
post Jan 31st 2008, 1:01 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Jan 31st 2008, 7:40 PM) *

Well it may have been there simply as a testing ground, the device on this planet wasn't meant to attack anyone that could come through the gate, it was just meant to test it there. There may be other planets where sensitive research was happening where the mini dones were used to help protect it.

And yeah Lancelot you pretty much answered your own question wink.gif


I guess the device could be used more like the Asgard's Thor's Hammer, but instead of capturing an enemy with a certain DNA sequence, it would attack anyone who does not have the Ancient gene on a planet where the Ancients conducted delicate research as you said. That is quite an ingenious use for the device.

The Wraith would just respond by sending darts through the gate, instead of troops.

And the Ancients would respond by relocating the gate inside a facility or a forest. whistling.gif
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lancelot2
post Jan 31st 2008, 1:30 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 7:01 PM) *

I guess the device could be used more like the Asgard's Thor's Hammer, but instead of capturing an enemy with a certain DNA sequence, it would attack anyone who does not have the Ancient gene on a planet where the Ancients conducted delicate research as you said. That is quite an ingenious use for the device.

The Wraith would just respond by sending darts through the gate, instead of troops.

And the Ancients would respond by relocating the gate inside a facility or a forest. whistling.gif

well i wonder what the mini drones would do to a wraith dart? how much damage would they inflict?
just think if there was a swarm of thousands of mini drones they'd probably take out a whole army in seconds.
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hobo_joe20
post Jan 31st 2008, 3:05 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 1:01 PM) *

And the Ancients would respond by relocating the gate inside a facility or a forest. whistling.gif

Yeah, I dont know why more people dont build something like in Thor's Hammer. Except, you dont need it to shoot sh*t. Just have a giant pillar like 10 feet past the gate so any vehicles coming through at high speed would just ram right into it.

Of course, you would have to leave enough room for a jumper to get through and all .. but they aren't that big
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KillerMarv
post Jan 31st 2008, 3:13 PM
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QUOTE(hobo_joe20 @ Jan 31st 2008, 10:05 PM) *

Yeah, I dont know why more people dont build something like in Thor's Hammer. Except, you dont need it to shoot sh*t. Just have a giant pillar like 10 feet past the gate so any vehicles coming through at high speed would just ram right into it.

Of course, you would have to leave enough room for a jumper to get through and all .. but they aren't that big


Of course: Ancient gate shield. Jumpers coming in with code, shield down. Wraith coming in with anything else... kasplash !!! laugh.gif

I guess that they could cripple a dart with enough of them being used, but I think you couldn't call that very efficient, as you could use them to take down more people instead of attacking a dart that can be taken down with one big drone. 1.gif
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hobo_joe20
post Jan 31st 2008, 3:15 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 3:13 PM) *

Of course: Ancient gate shield. Jumpers coming in with code, shield down. Wraith coming in with anything else... kasplash !!! laugh.gif

I guess that they could cripple a dart with enough of them being used, but I think you couldn't call that very efficient, as you could use them to take down more people instead of attacking a dart that can be taken down with one big drone. 1.gif

Well, what about people without access to an ancient shield? just plant a tree infront of the gate and in 20 years you have a homegrown anti-dart defence!
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post Jan 31st 2008, 3:51 PM
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QUOTE(hobo_joe20 @ Jan 31st 2008, 12:15 PM) *

Well, what about people without access to an ancient shield? just plant a tree infront of the gate and in 20 years you have a homegrown anti-dart defence!


Or... just knock the gate over face down. 1.gif
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Rogue Ashrak
post Feb 1st 2008, 3:26 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2008, 10:25 AM) *


If you read my post once again, you will see that I said the information is valid. It's just not valid to me for the time being, as it is in spoiler tags. Maybe Rogue will read the spoiler and use the evidence. smile.gif
Oddly enough, for some reason I defied all my usual spoiler avoiding instincts and I did read it rolleyes.gif (luckilly it doesnt seem to be a major plot point of the movie or anything big like that). I would have to agree that (assuming the spoiler is true), JT wins this round. Dakara was the defintely the Anceints first playground in the Milky Way.
Of course that really has no bearing on the whole "Drones in Antarctica to fight the Ori" theory. Maybe they figured the weapon already on Dakara was enough to deal with an Ori attack and they didn't need a chair and drones.

Likewise, my theory has no actual bearing on this thread any more now that Invis has pointed out that the whole drone origin issue was just a cock up by Mallozzi (that dumbass). So I'll just keep it in the draw for a rainy day and shut up for now. smile.gif

QUOTE(Shylodog @ Feb 1st 2008, 7:51 AM) *


Or... just knock the gate over face down. 1.gif


Well that kinda prevents people from coming through now too 1.gif It's ships we hate, not people wink.gif

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