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> 412 - Spoils of War
Rating  4
Arcady
post Jan 11th 2008, 11:32 PM
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Season 4, Episode 12 - Spoils of War
Air date: January 11, 2008

The Atlantis team salvages a partially damaged Hive ship and retrieves information that may help in their war against the Wraith.

Episode Guide | Spoilers | Teaser

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
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Revan
post Jan 12th 2008, 12:31 AM
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Now we know where Wraith babies come from, and that the Wraith weakness is that, if all the queens die, the Wraith die. (Course I'm only 20 minutes in right now) They talked about Queens in 411, and how without Queens no more soldiers could be made.
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post Jan 12th 2008, 2:07 AM
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Warning!!! Noob question!! You have been warned.

Have wraiths always referred to their superiors as "commander"? For a person who doesn't know the in's and out's of Atlantis it was a bit weird hearing the wraiths use titles like that.

Also, in the ending, I didn't really buy the "he must've escaped with a dart" or something like that. He was surrounded by marines; even if the run back to the jumper was hectic...hrm...nevermind. Now that I think about it they were under attack. Things could have been disorienting...bleh. I need to stop changing my mind. Anywho. Your thoughts?
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IndyJan
post Jan 12th 2008, 2:19 AM
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It was nice to finally find out how the Wraith reproduce and replenish. It was also nice to find out just how they were able to defeat the Ancients. Many questions for quite some time, and they were answered.

Finally, Teyla gets why Shep did what he did. Teyla was not thinking about her unborn child until this episode happened. It was interesting that being pregnant helped Teyla to control the Queen's mind. It gave her added strength. It was also interesting to learn that if the Queen had taken over she could have killed the baby. I don't know how that could have happened.

I love Major Lorne and his scene with Teyla was very nice.

I liked the Wraith Michael, but I must say that Todd is turning out to be very interesting. Of course he escaped. I don't think the Atlantis team even tried to stop him. I'm sure that they let him go. So once again a source of ZPMs is destroyed. mad.gif

McKay, "oh great, always last in school, but now the universe balances!" smile.gif
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JTMAG1
post Jan 12th 2008, 3:10 AM
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This episode was enteresting. It was cool to see how they make new Wraith. It appears that the Wraith are born fully grown, but I remember it being mentioned in an earlier episode that they don't start feeding in the life sucking manner until after puberty.

I also found it strange that the wraith mask thing they wear was actually inside the pod. Is it organic? I see why they wear the masks though, they are ugly as hell. If I were the parent, I wouldn't want to look at that child.

Teyla got what she asked for. It's interesting that at only 3 months her baby had a mind for the Queen to connect with. I'm glad that Sheppard established that it wasn't about any anger on his part about not being told, but for her own good, and the good of the others.

When Shep said, "we've got bodies." It sounds like Lorne's response was "Aknowledged, keep looking". I think it's odd that he woudl tell his superior that.

All and all I think it was a good episode, hopefully they follow it up with some info on where they get ships for all of those new Wraith.

EDIT: as I'm rewatching this episode, lots of little things are bothering me. Lorne comes in and says that he found some snacks in the jumper. Previous, they had candybars in their vests, and they've stocked the jumpers with MREs, if they were hungry they should have been able to eat at any time.

This post has been edited by JTMAG1: Jan 12th 2008, 3:22 AM
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Reignfire
post Jan 12th 2008, 11:47 AM
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I think I've lost count of the number ships captured by Humans that were lost within 3 episodes... Anyway, truthfully we don't know if this is how Wraith are normally born, this could be a way they developed to mass produce soldiers. Now I'm wondering if information on this very base was the secret the Aurora was transporting.
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 12th 2008, 2:44 PM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Jan 12th 2008, 7:19 AM) *

It gave her added strength. It was also interesting to learn that if the Queen had taken over she could have killed the baby. I don't know how that could have happened.

Well the queen from Submersion said she could crush Teyla's mind, given the mind of Teyla's child is a lot less developed she probably could have just ended it right there right then. Makes sense really.
I also thought the baby giving Teyla added strength was a bit kookey smile.gif But oh well it worked out well and they took it in a good direction so...

QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 12th 2008, 8:10 AM) *

This episode was enteresting. It was cool to see how they make new Wraith. It appears that the Wraith are born fully grown, but I remember it being mentioned in an earlier episode that they don't start feeding in the life sucking manner until after puberty.

They say the Wraith queen gives birth to subjects and they then clone them. But I think what we saw was only the creation of the masked drones, not the normal Wraith/queen. I doubt they just clone queens (Such as Ellia, the little girl Wraith from Instinct. Her and normal facefull Wraith I think are just born normally.)

QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 12th 2008, 8:10 AM) *
Previous, they had candybars in their vests, and they've stocked the jumpers with MREs, if they were hungry they should have been able to eat at any time.

They may have already had those ones, and Lorne only got more once they were significantly hungry.

QUOTE(Reignfire @ Jan 12th 2008, 4:47 PM) *

I think I've lost count of the number ships captured by Humans that were lost within 3 episodes... Anyway, truthfully we don't know if this is how Wraith are normally born, this could be a way they developed to mass produce soldiers. Now I'm wondering if information on this very base was the secret the Aurora was transporting.

Don't think we'll ever find out what the Aurora Wraith secret was, even if we do uncover possible sources like this we won't know if it was the one they were talking about.


As for my thoughts, yeah good episode. Nothing really against it. I liked the transition from showing Teyla to the lighting changing and the Wraith showing up form behind. But questions answered is a good thing from me. It's always bugged me as to who those faceless Wraith are.

I also think it's the first tease not to feature any of the SGA personnel. But yeah quite good. 7-8/10.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Jan 12th 2008, 2:46 PM
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IndyJan
post Jan 12th 2008, 5:16 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Jan 12th 2008, 2:44 PM) *

Well the queen from Submersion said she could crush Teyla's mind, given the mind of Teyla's child is a lot less developed she probably could have just ended it right there right then. Makes sense really.
I also thought the baby giving Teyla added strength was a bit kookey smile.gif But oh well it worked out well and they took it in a good direction so...


Okay, I don't remember that from Submersion, thanks. It bothered me. I just remembered that Teyla had a hard time being in control when she tried to read the mind before. It might have been a bit kookey about the added strength from the baby, but I did like it.

As I said before, Teyla finally got what John was all about in sidelining her. Many of us in the previous episode thread talked about it non-stop. She now gets it. I mean I understood why she wanted to go out there. She wanted to find her people, especially Kanan, the baby's father, but she wasn't thinking clearly about the danger to the unborn child. In this episode she did speak about thinking that her child would be the last of her people.

As I said before also, I really, really like Todd. So far they have created two what I would call unique Wraith, Michael and Todd. I'm hoping that we see more of each of them. I think I can almost guarantee about Todd. wink.gif
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Keith
post Jan 12th 2008, 8:46 PM
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Good ep I thought.

Although at one point when Tayla had more power over wraith technology I thought her baby could of possibly been a wraith child, or a half wraith child... (Think Aliens).


I found it a little odd how none of them shot the queen sooner once they had there weapons back, but oh well.


Also, would crashing that ship into a complex that big really do any thing? I guess it could of been enough to make the ZPM's explode?


Todd what a guy escaping in his dart, so convenient! biggrin.gif


Wonder when we will hear from the rest of the replicators?
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Janos
post Jan 12th 2008, 11:43 PM
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Ok, everyone who didn't think they were going to end up losing the derelict Wraith ship before the end of the episode, raise your hands!

And for those of you whose hands are not raised, how many thought they were going to crash the ship into it? I figured that out as soon as they realized they had to destroy the base and it was too big for a normal C4 explosion.

Let's look at the math:

Heavily Damaged, Captured, Enemy Ship + Space Gate + Cloaked Jumper + Undestroyable Enemy Base = Enemy Ship Reaching Ramming Speed + Enemy Base Going Boom

You see? The Equation balances smile.gif

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Pitry
post Jan 13th 2008, 10:47 AM
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Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts and of course, at the end comes to the conclusion the supeior male officer was right all along and she should be grateful for the peanuts is not my idea of how integrating women in armies should look like. Not where the feminist movement was heading.

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

Rest was slightly boring.
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JTMAG1
post Jan 13th 2008, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Jan 13th 2008, 10:47 AM) *

Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts and of course, at the end comes to the conclusion the supeior male officer was right all along and she should be grateful for the peanuts is not my idea of how integrating women in armies should look like. Not where the feminist movement was heading.

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

Rest was slightly boring.

Yeah, you're right, they should just let her do whatever she wants even though she's pregnant. dry.gif
There are medical reasons where both men and women need to be on limited, or no duty at all. A pregnancy qualifies for one of them in my book. We all know what happens to an unborn baby if the mother puts too much stress on her body, let alone gets killed. I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
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BigusDickus
post Jan 13th 2008, 12:31 PM
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I cant see the problem either. Its not like she has a desk job and can carry on working. She is in the thick of the action all the time, she could easly get a miss carrage :/
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 13th 2008, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Jan 13th 2008, 3:47 PM) *

Eurgh.

I'm not a radical feminist, really, I'm not. But an episode where the herione is being shut off by the superior male officer who alter gives her the "take the peanuts I'm offering you or not at all", is swallowing enough of her dignity and self respect to take them peanuts

Well I think Johns statement of 'you can either help us or not' was actually a very clever thing to say. Teyla knew the stakes and that given the choice she would do what she could to help out the team/galaxy, her turning that down because John was rude to her would have been bad to the character imo. It would have been really petty. So I think this line was the best one John could have said to get her on board, as it would have made her realise that. The way he presented it was a bit a$$hole-ish but he did the job.

Out of curiosity, what is official military protocol on pregnant women? What can they or cannot they be allowed to do? (which would likely be an angle John was coming at, as well as for the babies health.)

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Pitry
post Jan 13th 2008, 1:15 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 13th 2008, 7:16 PM) *

Yeah, you're right, they should just let her do whatever she wants even though she's pregnant. dry.gif
There are medical reasons where both men and women need to be on limited, or no duty at all. A pregnancy qualifies for one of them in my book. We all know what happens to an unborn baby if the mother puts too much stress on her body, let alone gets killed. I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.


And that's teh second big problem I had with the episode.
See, there's a huuuge arguement about abortions. The anti abotions peopel say a foetus -at any development stage - is a person,a dn tehrefore abortion is murder. The pro abortion view is that a woman has a right over her own body and that abortion is her right. Because that little foetus, especially at 3 months, isn;t a person.
A pregnant woman at tyhe stage her pregnancy is a [physical problem to her should be out of field duty. I've no doubt. She'd be risking her own health and the health of her teammates if she's doing things she's not physically able to do.
This isn't the case with Teyla yet. Not in her current condition. The entire approach to this was "you'd be risking your baby and we can't allow that". So, fu** all about how she feels/ thinks/ whatever, she'd be irresponsible to risk her unborn child. Murering him, perhaps? The same old abortion arguement. On;y it's not persented as an arguement - it's presented as an obviuos matter of fact. I'm sorry, it's not. If Teyla wants to risk her foetus - jsut liek she is willing to risk her own life every time she's in the field, BTW - it's her own bloody choice. Not anyone else's.

As for John's offer, I thought it was condescending, patronising and patrierchal tot he extreme and my sudden urge to slap him didn't disappear as much as give place to a sudden urge to slap Teyla when she accepted it.
Yes, she should have been rude. She's the leader of her people, ffs, and ye she accepts such a condescending offer from John? Either take her as an equal member of his team or not at all, I say. It's a bit remidning of Enid Blyton's Secret Seven - or whatever they were called - books, where everytime there was some spying to do the boys would go "no, this is boys' work, you're the girls and you can't participate". You can sit and knit and do all your nice little choirs and in returnget to hear the exciting stuff on the phone, or you can stand up and demand what's rightfully yours.
And it's not that this is the way things are happening in SGA that bopthers me as much as the fact it's taken for granted.
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post Jan 13th 2008, 3:14 PM
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I really liked this episode, even if the loss of the Wraith Hive was easily predictable.

I am very pleased that they finally answered those questions... I wonder why they chose now to do so...

I really hope we see Todd again; I was really starting to like him. At first I thought maybe it was a trap for the SG teams, but then we find out it had nothing to do with them, and that Todd cut out his transmitter in a last ditch effort to get some sort of backup.
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Reignfire
post Jan 13th 2008, 7:22 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Jan 13th 2008, 9:47 AM) *

Other than that, yay at Todd not being killed off but a shame they didn't take him with them.

I think it's better he got away. They would just run into the problem of feeding him again.
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post Jan 13th 2008, 7:56 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Jan 13th 2008, 1:15 PM) *

And that's teh second big problem I had with the episode.
See, there's a huuuge arguement about abortions. The anti abotions peopel say a foetus -at any development stage - is a person,a dn tehrefore abortion is murder. The pro abortion view is that a woman has a right over her own body and that abortion is her right. Because that little foetus, especially at 3 months, isn;t a person.
A pregnant woman at tyhe stage her pregnancy is a [physical problem to her should be out of field duty. I've no doubt. She'd be risking her own health and the health of her teammates if she's doing things she's not physically able to do.
This isn't the case with Teyla yet. Not in her current condition. The entire approach to this was "you'd be risking your baby and we can't allow that". So, fu** all about how she feels/ thinks/ whatever, she'd be irresponsible to risk her unborn child. Murering him, perhaps? The same old abortion arguement. On;y it's not persented as an arguement - it's presented as an obviuos matter of fact. I'm sorry, it's not. If Teyla wants to risk her foetus - jsut liek she is willing to risk her own life every time she's in the field, BTW - it's her own bloody choice. Not anyone else's.

As for John's offer, I thought it was condescending, patronising and patrierchal tot he extreme and my sudden urge to slap him didn't disappear as much as give place to a sudden urge to slap Teyla when she accepted it.
Yes, she should have been rude. She's the leader of her people, ffs, and ye she accepts such a condescending offer from John? Either take her as an equal member of his team or not at all, I say. It's a bit remidning of Enid Blyton's Secret Seven - or whatever they were called - books, where everytime there was some spying to do the boys would go "no, this is boys' work, you're the girls and you can't participate". You can sit and knit and do all your nice little choirs and in returnget to hear the exciting stuff on the phone, or you can stand up and demand what's rightfully yours.
And it's not that this is the way things are happening in SGA that bopthers me as much as the fact it's taken for granted.


i am no expert in the matters of the military but i got my two cents..

from the way shepard and lorne is acting, i am assuming that they were trained to take all female members of their team who are pregnant off active duty immediately...,. at least thats the wibe that i got.. from teylas point of view, its illogical at least until the third trmester where her physical condition is impaired.. but from shepard and others, its the risk of life that must be avoided..

also as atlantis team is run from a military perspective, i would assume earth's military procedure to be followed, as the athosian does not have military tradition, and ronan's is only a man..

and as teyla is a member of shepards team, she must be treated as a member and not as a leader... cos in a team there can only be one leader,,.. it would jeapordise the chain of command if teyla is treated as a leader and not another team member..


also i would assume that todd is let to escape as they don;t have the time to worry about keeping him secured..

just my 2 cents
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post Jan 13th 2008, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Jan 12th 2008, 5:19 PM) *

It was nice to finally find out how the Wraith reproduce and replenish. It was also nice to find out just how they were able to defeat the Ancients. Many questions for quite some time, and they were answered.

Finally, Teyla gets why Shep did what he did. Teyla was not thinking about her unborn child until this episode happened. It was interesting that being pregnant helped Teyla to control the Queen's mind. It gave her added strength. It was also interesting to learn that if the Queen had taken over she could have killed the baby. I don't know how that could have happened.

I love Major Lorne and his scene with Teyla was very nice.

I liked the Wraith Michael, but I must say that Todd is turning out to be very interesting. Of course he escaped. I don't think the Atlantis team even tried to stop him. I'm sure that they let him go. So once again a source of ZPMs is destroyed. mad.gif

McKay, "oh great, always last in school, but now the universe balances!" smile.gif

Good ep, but this thing with ZPM is pi$$ing me off the Wraith get 2 they get zip! be nice to see atlantis with 3.
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 13th 2008, 10:16 PM
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I've been used to Earth getting advanced technology at the beginning of the episode and then losing it by episodes end since season 1 of SG-1. Every episode there where they would encounter an advanced piece of tech they would lose it, by episodes like Decent you were just thinking 'Ok, how's THIS mothership going to get destroyed'

I thought these thoughts with the ZPM's from the last episode and the Hive ship/ZPM's here, I don't see why it's becoming a problem NOW though they've always done this smile.gif

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HSV
post Jan 13th 2008, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Jan 14th 2008, 1:16 PM) *

I've been used to Earth getting advanced technology at the beginning of the episode and then losing it by episodes end since season 1 of SG-1. Every episode there where they would encounter an advanced piece of tech they would lose it, by episodes like Decent you were just thinking 'Ok, how's THIS mothership going to get destroyed'

I thought these thoughts with the ZPM's from the last episode and the Hive ship/ZPM's here, I don't see why it's becoming a problem NOW though they've always done this smile.gif

Yes that's true ,but just once would be nice smile.gif
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Dave312
post Jan 13th 2008, 10:45 PM
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I liked this episode. Answered a few questions that were kinda bugging me. When I first saw Todd with the ZPM's I thought he was going to modify his ship and head for Earth. I was just a little bit off though...
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JTMAG1
post Jan 13th 2008, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Jan 13th 2008, 1:15 PM) *

This post was extremly difficult to read/decode/understand.
So, if it's her body and she has the right to do what she wants.. where doe that end? What happens when the baby is 3 months old, and she can't find a baby sitter, will she be allowed to bring a stroller along on the mission? I mean, she's the child's mother, she makes every decision for the child who is unable to to do anything but drink milk and cry. And, once again, the lives of the other members on teh team and the entire city of Atlantis are at risk, if the life of her child becomes threatened.

Teyla suffered ill affects during this mission, the life of the child was threatened, and it distracted her. Plus, she's already been suffering from morning sickness. How do you mount an escape from an enemy cell when one of your team members is hunched over throwing up?
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 13th 2008, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 14th 2008, 4:15 AM) *

So, if it's her body and she has the right to do what she wants.. where doe that end? What happens when the baby is 3 months old, and she can't find a baby sitter, will she be allowed to bring a stroller along on the mission? I mean, she's the child's mother, she makes every decision for the child who is unable to to do anything but drink milk and cry. And, once again, the lives of the other members on teh team and the entire city of Atlantis are at risk, if the life of her child becomes threatened.

Teyla suffered ill affects during this mission, the life of the child was threatened, and it distracted her. Plus, she's already been suffering from morning sickness. How do you mount an escape from an enemy cell when one of your team members is hunched over throwing up?

Firstly, she's not a mother yet, she's a mother to be, but her physical condition isn't at the point where it's impeding her. While she's in this condition I cannot see anyway in which she could possibly put the other team members at risk, later in the pregnancy yes, but that's what maternity leave is for.
The life of the child though in this mission is what got her through it, you could argue that she tried harder to keep control over the Wraith because the life of her child was threatened. We don't know that part.

As for the morning sickness on missions, more extreme aspects of pregnancy come in later, but she is not at the point at 3 months (where she was at the point none of the other characters had noticed a week earlier) where she is incapable. But the scenereo you posted would be incredibly unlikely and Teyla would resist it if they were in a life threatening situation.

Pitry's post did make sense. And so far I haven't heard any real arguments against anything she said.
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