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> 411 - Be All My Sins Remember'd
Rating  5
JTMAG1
post Jan 5th 2008, 7:14 PM
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The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with Rodney being able to create a replicator that did exactly what he wanted it to do, when the ancients could not.
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Rogue Ashrak
post Jan 5th 2008, 7:15 PM
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QUOTE(NewbieSGfan @ Jan 5th 2008, 6:04 PM) *
As an afterthought, was anyone else pessimistic? I was waiting for Rodney's replicator to turn on the team or something. It just surprised me that one of their a "risky" plans actually worked (sort of, if you ignore the whole black out thing). At least it made things suspenseful, for me anyway. biggrin.gif
I think everyone was expecting McKay's pet Replicator to turn on them. Probably why they didn't do it, would have been far too predictable.
QUOTE(IndyJan @ Jan 5th 2008, 7:20 PM) *
Once again, Rodney in his arrogance, almost cost them everything.

What? What arrogance? He was acting perfectly reasonably to me, for example he was nothing like the way he was wen he caused that unfortunant little incident in Trinity.
QUOTE
Oh and I loved Sam letting the colonel have it for talking to Mckay the way he did. That was something that needed to happen.
Oh definetley. Granted the Colonel may have had a point...but he could have been a little bit more diplomatic about expressing it. To me he seemed very pessimistic about McKay's ideas the whole way through, it was almost as if he wanted them to fail just so he could have the opportunity to break into his "I told you so" dance. Jerk.
QUOTE
On a funny note, I did like the opening, "colonel, colonel, colonel, colonel, colonels, colonels," Rodney, you are kidding me right? That was a very funny scene.
I loved that. Methinks Martin Gero may be a M*A*S*H fan.
QUOTE(star1 @ Jan 5th 2008, 8:13 PM) *
they could have save the planet
??? Uh, what? ..... Moving on then....
QUOTE(AJL² @ Jan 6th 2008, 1:56 AM) *
And is Weir going to turn out be like another Replicarter... unsure.gif
QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 5th 2008, 9:36 PM) *
I see everyone hated the ending... but I thought it was awesome. It brings a lot of questions: If the original Weir was killed, than this would be a replicator, and the question would be "How many of them are there?"; If the original wasn't killed, than this could be the original, and somehow she was brainwashed into doing this. So, will she really consider Atlantis as an enemy?
I hope she won't be just another RepliCarter. Like Marv suggested, I think this may actually be the original Weir, drafted, brainwashed, reprogrammed if you will. At a guess, I'm thinking that the work these apparent rebel Asurans are working on may be thier research into ascension, and they're using Weir to help them. And of course now they don't have to stay in hiding from the main Asuran group, hence the "looking over our shoulders" part.

This actually brings up an interesting question. If the Asurans ascended, what would happen? Would they follow the established Ascended rulebook? Or would the Ascended Ancients look upon the ascencion of their little science projects as an abomination and try to wipe them out? It could be like the Ori-Ancient war all over again, just with the Ancients as the agressors this time.
QUOTE
Lol, the Wraith warning McKay that he would propose feeding on him if he doesn't finish the program in time. And Rodney's reaction, priceless. biggrin.gif
Oh yes. I'm going to miss that Wraith. He was quite a character, hope they run into him again.
QUOTE
The episode was the best one of Atlantis ever made. The effects, and the way the alliance worked was better than Camelot. The idea behind the destruction of the Replicator homeworld was ingenious.
A great episode, with a lot of time and resources invested in it perhaps. I hope they still had some budget for the rest of the season. wink.gif

Totally agree, best episode ever, hands down. Thers always been complaints levelled at various episodes this season that the writers were just ripping off SG1 plots, but this ep was really original I think. Great story great humour, great effects, and an absolutely brilliant script. It was cool to see all the story elements from the various episodes in the first half of the season come together in this episode, it was great planning of the part of the writing team.

I only wish our old friend JRV was around so we could watch him try to claim that "This ep sucked, it didn't advance the main arc, SGA is going down the toilet, blah, blah, blah". 1.gif Hope he really did bail on the series, would have served him right to miss an episode with this magnitude of awesome. smile.gif
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dr lee
post Jan 5th 2008, 7:43 PM
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As much as i found his tirades irritating as hell, i would LOVE to see how he could call this cr*p laugh.gif

Absolutely brilliant episode... LOVED the battle. Good to see that they didn't have it on one axis but numerous. (Like the traveler ship that flew up from under the hyperdrive spooling up Asuran ship)

The Col, Col, Col.... bit had me in stitches... so simple yet so funny laugh.gif

Repliwier... IMHO i'd have liked it if they hadn't shown her face but done that bit as a POV with her doing a VO. That way we'd be speculating on whether that was Higginson we heard or not.

I was kinda surprised at the ease that the beam weapons cut through the Asuran ships. I would have thought maybe a few more hits before it went kaboom... oh well.

Nice to see Carter taking a stand for 'Her' people. Wonder what wier would have done if she was still around?

And Teyla.... Sheps reaction was the only real reaction. You can't send pregnant women into a potential battle field, no matter what the hell she can do with a piece of wood. Did we see her after that scene? *Scratches head*

Shame we couldn't have saved all those empty usable ships above Asura....oh well.

9.99/10

Roll on next week!
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 5th 2008, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE(Rogue Ashrak @ Jan 6th 2008, 12:15 AM) *

I think everyone was expecting McKay's pet Replicator to turn on them. Probably why they didn't do it, would have been far too predictable.

Tbh I think this bit was extremely well done, there were a few points in the episode where they opened up doors where you were just thinking 'he's going to turn on the team' 'They're going to ect....' Such as when the Wraith knocked them out and all the Wraith had their own little private meeting. That wasn't actually my first suspicion that that Wraith was going to turn on the team, my first was somewhere on the Atlantis base. But again I thought...repli...cute girl (I can't remember her name, this one'll do) would turn, when Rodney gave the 'don't you want to carry on living' speech I thought that was the turning point. I expected them to show a 'contemplating look' from her at the end of that scene, but she didn't and she didn't turn.
Everything on this front was very well done.

QUOTE(dr lee @ Jan 6th 2008, 12:43 AM) *

Repliwier... IMHO i'd have liked it if they hadn't shown her face but done that bit as a POV with her doing a VO. That way we'd be speculating on whether that was Higginson we heard or not.

No, we know her voice. We would recognise it was her, for the impact of the scene you need to show her. Anything else would be less then climatic.

And while we're on Weir, I believe that that was the original Weir, she had nanites as part of her system, it wouldn't be too hard for them to brainwash her, I mean that's what we all thought they'd do after Lifeline. But if it was anyone other then the real Weir it wouldn't really have the same effect, or else what's the point it may as well be any old Replicator. If they were the rebelicators (which I think is the only logical thing) then it makes sense Replikeller lying to the team about Weirs demise.

QUOTE(dr lee @ Jan 6th 2008, 12:43 AM) *
And Teyla.... Sheps reaction was the only real reaction. You can't send pregnant women into a potential battle field, no matter what the hell she can do with a piece of wood.

I think that's how she got into that situation in the first place.
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dr lee
post Jan 5th 2008, 11:01 PM
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i guess it would have been too easy if we heard her voice, i just think it would have created more speculation had we not seen the 'commanders' face... and i guess heard their voice.

I knew of the ending situation before the epsidoe... but not as the ending to this episode I knew that a version of her is still around and that we'd know about it but i was still surprised that they gave us proof of surviving replicaters in the same episode that they destryed them.


Also... why didn't they nick all the ZPMs on Asura before they left? or at least a few. as far as i knew the only thing the replicaters replicate is themselves and not their ships/buildings/ stuff they live with, so any ZPM on Asura would have been clean from Replicater problems.

And we just left them there to blow up with the planet.

I know that the reason was that TPTB don't want Atlantis too powerful... but then they gave us those beam weapons
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 5th 2008, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE(dr lee @ Jan 6th 2008, 4:01 AM) *

i guess it would have been too easy if we heard her voice, i just think it would have created more speculation had we not seen the 'commanders' face... and i guess heard their voice.

I knew of the ending situation before the epsidoe... but not as the ending to this episode I knew that a version of her is still around and that we'd know about it but i was still surprised that they gave us proof of surviving replicaters in the same episode that they destryed them.
Also... why didn't they nick all the ZPMs on Asura before they left? or at least a few. as far as i knew the only thing the replicaters replicate is themselves and not their ships/buildings/ stuff they live with, so any ZPM on Asura would have been clean from Replicater problems.

And we just left them there to blow up with the planet.

Yeah I thought of that as well, but plot wise they didn't really have time to get the ZPM's before they had to get out of there. Plus they may not have known WHERE in the city the ZPM's were they just knew they could overload them from the control room.

I didn't know about Weir would be back though, so from a innocent standpoint I think the way they did it was right.
As for finding out that some Repli's survived in the same episode, I thought it worked well, made it so you realised that they would return and that something would happen in the future. To let you know the arc would still be developed. The plot of this episode was about the Replicators though, any other episode a small reveal like that wouldn't really have been as relevant as that plot likely wouldn't have been anything to do with them.
Plus it's like the icing on the cake, a fantastic way to end an already great episode. biggrin.gif
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NewbieSGfan
post Jan 6th 2008, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 5th 2008, 7:14 PM) *

The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with Rodney being able to create a replicator that did exactly what he wanted it to do, when the ancients could not.


But the ancients made the replicators to fight the Wraith. Rodney made his replicator to combat the Replicators themselves, and like he said, he stripped down lots of the complex coding. All Rodney wanted was a stable collection of replicator bits (nanites? Sorry, I'm not too up-to-date with Replicator technology). The ancients wanted a fully functional Wraith-fighting, non human hurting, and...other crazy stuff that would probably be way above Rodney's head.


Hrm...as an afterthought, he DID manage to rewrite the base code to activate the Replicator's command to attack the Wraith. Not sure if the ancients ever made it that far (Yeah, I haven't really been following the show as much as I did SG1).
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Dave312
post Jan 6th 2008, 1:35 AM
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QUOTE(NewbieSGfan @ Jan 6th 2008, 4:56 PM) *

But the ancients made the replicators to fight the Wraith. Rodney made his replicator to combat the Replicators themselves, and like he said, he stripped down lots of the complex coding. All Rodney wanted was a stable collection of replicator bits (nanites? Sorry, I'm not too up-to-date with Replicator technology). The ancients wanted a fully functional Wraith-fighting, non human hurting, and...other crazy stuff that would probably be way above Rodney's head.
Hrm...as an afterthought, he DID manage to rewrite the base code to activate the Replicator's command to attack the Wraith. Not sure if the ancients ever made it that far (Yeah, I haven't really been following the show as much as I did SG1).


Not to mention that Rodney was unable to make the nanites do what he actually wanted (form the simple cube). Also remember that Rodney was working off a template. Its not like he was creating his replicator from scratch.

Awesome episode though. No complaints on my part. I enjoyed seeing the Weir part. It means that the replicators are not gone but their power severely diminished. I would like to see the Weir as being the one created from nanites. Speculation:
» Click to Show Spoiler «
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Joda
post Jan 6th 2008, 2:11 AM
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The "original" Weir is dead. They said so in Mortal Coil... This was likely the re-created Weir (like the recreated team Shep). Obviously no sign as to her intentions, but I got the feeling they were the "Ascension" sect, who are now happy to be able to research ascension without worrying about the replicators. However I don't doubt that they exist in the grey area, doing what is neccessary, good and bad, to accomplish their goal.

Colonel, Colonel, Colonel, Colonels, Colonel, Colonels, what? Seriously? I had to pause and stop to catch my breath, that was so funny.

The Asura space battle was awesome. It actually had *depth*! I could see fighting going on past the point of focus, above and below. Stray weapons fire... it kinda reminded me of the opening scene of SW: ROTS. Blew the Camelot battle out of the water IMHO.

One thing I think Earth needs... proper Fleet Command. Having two equal rank commanders will lead to trouble in the field if they have differing opinions about a tactical situation. And the comms between the two ships prior to vaping that first Replicator warship had me cringing... there's going to have to be revisions in the way things are done. Pre-designed protocals for entering systems/leaving hyperspace, there needs to be one commander ordering the other ship[s] around, not asking politely if they concur... Maybe I've read too many SW novels with proper fleet structure, but still. Look at the stucture of the Naval forces. There is usually an Admiral, or senior fleet commander who has full discrectionary control over the fleet, from the flagship, while each ship captain maintains their own ships.

FRAN... well... yeah, I thought she'd turn, or the replicators would take control of her... those last few minutes things looked iffy... I thought for sure that would backfire somehow... maybe FRAN wanted to be the next Replicarter... only HUGER! And yeah, I know it's not a word, thank you mr. helpful... heh...

Ellis, he's ok... doesn't have a lot of faith in McKay, but hey, he's Air force, McKay is science... they're not supposed to like each other. But I suspect Ellis will develop some respect for McKay now that he's proven himself to the colonel. Kudos to Carter for busting him down. And in front of Caldwell and Sheppard... smart move.

They Teyla thing... when we first saw her come into the control room (prior to the LT kid getting nuked... shame that) I was thinking... holy hell, she's ready to burst... yeah John, she's not feeling hot, and you're frakking blind!

But why'd they hafta nuke the kid who stunned Teyla in Tabula? He was a decent soldier.

Anyway, best of the year so far. Can't wait for the late season two parter.

» Click to Show Spoiler «
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KillerMarv
post Jan 6th 2008, 2:43 AM
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QUOTE(Joda @ Jan 6th 2008, 9:11 AM) *

The "original" Weir is dead. They said so in Mortal Coil... This was likely the re-created Weir (like the recreated team Shep). Obviously no sign as to her intentions, but I got the feeling they were the "Ascension" sect, who are now happy to be able to research ascension without worrying about the replicators. However I don't doubt that they exist in the grey area, doing what is neccessary, good and bad, to accomplish their goal.


Exactly. They are the ascension sect, and we have no signs as to their intentions. They surely wanted the other replicators out of the way. There are moments that when the writers tell us something via an untrustworthy character, that is when we have to doubt what that character has said. So, again, the sect leader could have told the truth and the original Weir is dead, or lied, and told us that just to ensure that humans don't try to rescue her in the future.
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JTMAG1
post Jan 6th 2008, 3:39 AM
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QUOTE(NewbieSGfan @ Jan 6th 2008, 12:56 AM) *

But the ancients made the replicators to fight the Wraith. Rodney made his replicator to combat the Replicators themselves, and like he said, he stripped down lots of the complex coding. All Rodney wanted was a stable collection of replicator bits (nanites? Sorry, I'm not too up-to-date with Replicator technology). The ancients wanted a fully functional Wraith-fighting, non human hurting, and...other crazy stuff that would probably be way above Rodney's head.
Hrm...as an afterthought, he DID manage to rewrite the base code to activate the Replicator's command to attack the Wraith. Not sure if the ancients ever made it that far (Yeah, I haven't really been following the show as much as I did SG1).

If Rodney knew that simplifying the programing would make the nanite behave in the desired fashion, I think the Ancients should have been able to figure that out.

You aren't sure f the Ancients figured out how to rewrite the base code, that they wrote in the first place? They never needed to rewrite that routine, its more likely that they left before the Wraith wrote the virus.

And I don't think that the ascended ancients would have the same emotions to the Replicators if they learned how to ascend. They probably have a more enlightened view towards what is and isn't life.
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post Jan 6th 2008, 3:49 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 6th 2008, 8:39 AM) *

If Rodney knew that simplifying the programing would make the nanite behave in the desired fashion, I think the Ancients should have been able to figure that out.

You aren't sure f the Ancients figured out how to rewrite the base code, that they wrote in the first place? They never needed to rewrite that routine, its more likely that they left before the Wraith wrote the virus.

And I don't think that the ascended ancients would have the same emotions to the Replicators if they learned how to ascend. They probably have a more enlightened view towards what is and isn't life.

But Rodney was just trying to get it so she could suck in the other replicators, that was the one command really. And the Ancients had already created the Asurans by that point, maybe now with heinsight they could create ones that would function better. But the problem had already been created. They just saw to destroy them instead of try again.

If any Asurans learned to ascend I think the Ancients would let them be, they've now crossed that line and I don't think the ancients would have a problem with it.
(Conspiracy theory: Maybe these Asurans want to ascend so they can fight the ancients in their current form.)
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post Jan 6th 2008, 4:00 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 5th 2008, 7:14 PM) *

The more I think about it, the more I have a problem with Rodney being able to create a replicator that did exactly what he wanted it to do, when the ancients could not.


Exactly, this is why I commented on his arrogance. Rodney time after time feels that he can do no wrong, that he can find a solution, when the Ancients were unable to defeat the Wraith or to stop the Asurans. We are speaking about a whole race that initially built the stargates, created other worlds and came up with huge amounts of technologies.

Rodney, to save Weir, so he said, injected her with nanites. It was wrong and problems occurred. Weir stated that she would not have wantd that. Rodney was only supposed to create a block of cells, instead, on his own he created a human form replicator, which should not have been a good thing. But it did help to destroy the homeworld, but something or someone survived, namely replicatorWeir and who knows how many others.
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lancelot2
post Jan 6th 2008, 1:15 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 6th 2008, 8:43 AM) *

Exactly. They are the ascension sect, and we have no signs as to their intentions. They surely wanted the other replicators out of the way. There are moments that when the writers tell us something via an untrustworthy character, that is when we have to doubt what that character has said. So, again, the sect leader could have told the truth and the original Weir is dead, or lied, and told us that just to ensure that humans don't try to rescue her in the future.


or when she said weir was dead she could have meant figuratively,i think what the asurans did was instead of out right killing weir they stripped her of all her memories and told her she was a new replicator/asuran
so that the weir we knew would be dead but the asurans would have a new replicator.which would be a lot easier than simply reprograming the old weir and it would have advantages against the atlantis team.now i know that this is just speculation but to me it seems more probable than the asurans creating another
weir clone.

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Invisible Painting
post Jan 6th 2008, 1:20 PM
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QUOTE(lancelot2 @ Jan 6th 2008, 6:15 PM) *

or when she said weir was dead she could have meant figuratively,i think what the asurans did was instead of out right killing weir they stripped her of all her memories and told her she was a new replicator/asuran
so that the weir we knew would be dead but the asurans would have a new replicator.which would be a lot easier than simply reprograming the old weir and it would have advantages against the atlantis team.now i know that this is just speculation but to me it seems more probable than the asurans creating another
weir clone.

Yeah but if she's got no memories what's the point in doing that? Why not just make another normal Replicator?
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seymour
post Jan 6th 2008, 7:40 PM
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I really enjoyed this right up until Weir and the surviving Replicators made their appearance. I know no-one really stays dead in Sci-Fi but please just this once - no more replicators! If TBTB wanted rid of TH - then why keep bringing her back? I can see repliWeir ascending soon.

Good Carter episode!
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 6th 2008, 7:56 PM
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QUOTE(seymour @ Jan 7th 2008, 12:40 AM) *

I really enjoyed this right up until Weir and the surviving Replicators made their appearance. I know no-one really stays dead in Sci-Fi but please just this once - no more replicators! If TBTB wanted rid of TH - then why keep bringing her back? I can see repliWeir ascending soon.

Good Carter episode!

My theory is as long as they've got a good plot and arc direction for a certain decision in mind I'm fine with it. The producers say they know exactly where they're going with this and have planned it all out. It seems like they could go down some really interesting ally ways with this. I have no problem with the plot though, the main replicators going was something I didn't think they would do but worked well as it did. I thought the plot twist did here too.

And on another note, I found out Alan McCullough is writing next weeks episode, an almost guaranteed good one then biggrin.gif
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Revan
post Jan 7th 2008, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE(dr lee @ Jan 5th 2008, 7:43 PM) *

And Teyla.... Sheps reaction was the only real reaction. You can't send pregnant women into a potential battle field, no matter what the hell she can do with a piece of wood. Did we see her after that scene? *Scratches head*

Nope. I thought it was odd that the last time we saw her was when she was talking to Ronon about baby names.
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JTMAG1
post Jan 7th 2008, 2:46 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 7th 2008, 12:19 AM) *

Nope. I thought it was odd that the last time we saw her was when she was talking to Ronon about baby names.

I too thought it was wierd that they never revisted what was going to happen with her.
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 7th 2008, 9:35 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 7th 2008, 7:46 AM) *

I too thought it was wierd that they never revisted what was going to happen with her.

Well, the story was quite crowded. I don't think they needed to in that episode. Based on next week's title (Spoils of War) it sounds like it could follow on from the events of this episode in quite a big way, and I believe this thread will be one of them that's continued.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Jan 7th 2008, 9:38 AM
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Revan
post Jan 7th 2008, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 7th 2008, 2:46 AM) *

I too thought it was wierd that they never revisted what was going to happen with her.

Well Rachel looked a lot more than 3 months pregnant.

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JTMAG1
post Jan 7th 2008, 11:35 AM
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Yeah, I think it was a little joke when she said 3 months, and Sheppard kinda glanced down at her stomach. We know that she's way past 3 months at this point.
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More Cowbell!
post Jan 7th 2008, 1:11 PM
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QUOTE(Rogue Ashrak @ Jan 5th 2008, 7:15 PM) *


Totally agree, best episode ever, hands down. Thers always been complaints levelled at various episodes this season that the writers were just ripping off SG1 plots, but this ep was really original I think. Great story great humour, great effects, and an absolutely brilliant script. It was cool to see all the story elements from the various episodes in the first half of the season come together in this episode, it was great planning of the part of the writing team.

I only wish our old friend JRV was around so we could watch him try to claim that "This ep sucked, it didn't advance the main arc, SGA is going down the toilet, blah, blah, blah". 1.gif Hope he really did bail on the series, would have served him right to miss an episode with this magnitude of awesome. smile.gif


This episode made the difference to me. I felt like the show had jumped the shark and it felt wrong. The eps were weak and I wasn't even looking forward to the show anymore. But this show was great, Carter had a role that was real for once, and I liked her in it.

I like how they have Wier still around too, I'm sure they can do a lot with that, and once again I'm looking forward to episodes!
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Invisible Painting
post Jan 7th 2008, 1:26 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 7th 2008, 4:35 PM) *

Yeah, I think it was a little joke when she said 3 months, and Sheppard kinda glanced down at her stomach. We know that she's way past 3 months at this point.

Well if she was any further really all the characters would have noticed, so I think plotwise to have her three months kinda makes sense. I don't see why she'd lie about her pregnancy now though, when she's coming out with it. It's possible/likely in real life she was past three months, but plot wise it made sense to keep it here.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Jan 7th 2008, 1:26 PM
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