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> 409 - Miller's Crossing
Rating  4
Samara Draven
post Dec 2nd 2007, 1:20 PM
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Does anyone else find the idea that Wallace's daughter, Sharon, was "reset to zero" so to speak after having been dead for just a couple of minutes, complete poppycock? Yes starving the brain of oxygen is damaging and yes the nanites can repair that damage but people have had their heart stopped for longer, been resuscitated and still had their sense of self. She was dead for less than five minutes and they were still delivering oxygenated blood to her tissue - including her brain - with their CPR efforts. That's why CPR is so important. Because even if you aren't able to get someone's heart beating again on your own, you can greatly increase their chances of survival and recovery by keeping their blood moving and delivering oxygen as well. SO, really her brain was only deprived of oxygen once they stopped CPR. From there, the deprivation lasted a minute or two.

Also, I wonder if Sharon's nanites "running out of steam" was related to the several electrical jolts they received during their attempts to resuscitate her. As Sheppard told Wallace, they "didn't know what happened and were still going over the data". Maybe they just wanted us to feel a little less terrible over her death if we thought she was a vegetable.

Don't know why after what they pulled with Sheppard, which I loved by the way. He knew the guy wanted nothing more than for his daughter to live and if she died and he was facing years in prison, of course he'd want not to live much and he had good intentions so he'd want to make things right. Sheppard knew that. Knew that if he presented the situation, Wallace would volunteer. He didn't have to convince him of anything. Wallace just didn't have all the facts and once he did, he did what any well meaning father would. And Sheppard knew that was what he would do. Does it make it right? No. But that's why I love it. I love it when they show the characters being less than perfect.

I do like this Wraith and I give him props for restraining himself from trying to feed on anyone while he was working. He was already starving when he arrived and for him to be to the point of collapse and still not try it was impressive. We know from past experiences that Wraith can usually go a while between feedings. Weeks even. So this one couldn't have fed all that recently before his capture, or they have had him a while longer than I thought. Still, I felt sympathy for him. Starving is not fun and for Wraith it's worse but he agreed to work anyway.

One tiny little nitpick I have is the star on his face. Did anyone else notice that it switched sides? When we first met him, it was on the left side of his face, putting it to the right when we looked at him. It started out there in this ep too but it switched to his right side and our left visual somewhere in the middle and was back where it belonged by the end. I could swear I saw it and I'm wondering if anyone else saw it too.
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Invisible Painting
post Dec 2nd 2007, 2:14 PM
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QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 2nd 2007, 6:20 PM) *

Does anyone else find the idea that Wallace's daughter, Sharon, was "reset to zero" so to speak after having been dead for just a couple of minutes, complete poppycock? Yes starving the brain of oxygen is damaging and yes the nanites can repair that damage but people have had their heart stopped for longer, been resuscitated and still had their sense of self. She was dead for less than five minutes and they were still delivering oxygenated blood to her tissue - including her brain - with their CPR efforts. That's why CPR is so important. Because even if you aren't able to get someone's heart beating again on your own, you can greatly increase their chances of survival and recovery by keeping their blood moving and delivering oxygen as well. SO, really her brain was only deprived of oxygen once they stopped CPR. From there, the deprivation lasted a minute or two.

We don't know how much time she was out for, but as said even if the brain was only damaged 50% the nanites would just shut them down and rebuild them. Anything left was erased as the nanites recreated it. But I think given we don't know how much time it took to get from room to room, and the fact that the people did give up trying to revive her after a while. A full 10-15 minutes could have lapsed from when she first stopped breathing and when she was revived again.

QUOTE
Don't know why after what they pulled with Sheppard, which I loved by the way. He knew the guy wanted nothing more than for his daughter to live and if she died and he was facing years in prison, of course he'd want not to live much and he had good intentions so he'd want to make things right. Sheppard knew that. Knew that if he presented the situation, Wallace would volunteer. He didn't have to convince him of anything. Wallace just didn't have all the facts and once he did, he did what any well meaning father would. And Sheppard knew that was what he would do. Does it make it right? No. But that's why I love it. I love it when they show the characters being less than perfect.

And well phrased, that's exactly it really.
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Samara Draven
post Dec 2nd 2007, 4:05 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Dec 2nd 2007, 2:14 PM) *

We don't know how much time she was out for, but as said even if the brain was only damaged 50% the nanites would just shut them down and rebuild them. Anything left was erased as the nanites recreated it. But I think given we don't know how much time it took to get from room to room, and the fact that the people did give up trying to revive her after a while. A full 10-15 minutes could have lapsed from when she first stopped breathing and when she was revived again.


I suppose, but I have a hard time believing the nanites wouldn't continue to keep the brain oxygenated because it is an essential function. Even if they could repair the damage, it makes no sense to cause it in the first place. I know they had to stop the heart to fix it but they're free agents. Why not keep the brain healthy instead of causing damage and then fixing it? Maybe they'd have us believe the nanites weren't programmed that way and being Earth made, they don't learn like real replicator cells do.

I know we don't know how long she was out for but as I said, CPR continues to provide oxygen to the brain which is why it's important. If you can keep the brain oxygenated, you can keep it from dying and minimize the damage, greatly improving a persons chances of being closer to normal and functional afterward instead of being a vegetable. And if the damage in Sharon was as much as 50%, how is it she is a vegetable? What? They erase the other healthy cells just for symmetry?

Real people have been dead for 10-15 minutes and revived and still had their sense of self afterward. Yes they had brain damage that affected their bodies but they still knew who they were to an extent, depending on the damage. In her case, she'd have had that damaged repaired and those cells reset to zero but the damage shouldn't have been so extensive that she'd not be herself anymore. There still should've been some undamaged brain tissue as well.

JMHO.
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BigusDickus
post Dec 2nd 2007, 4:09 PM
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Very good episode, dark in places and funny in others, always good biggrin.gif

» Click to Show Spoiler «
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JTMAG1
post Dec 2nd 2007, 8:45 PM
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QUOTE(BigusDickus @ Dec 2nd 2007, 4:09 PM) *


» Click to Show Spoiler «


My sentiments exactly
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IndyJan
post Dec 3rd 2007, 3:28 AM
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I like that Rodney's sister is actually played by his real life sister. I liked her other appearance. I hope that there will be more. Rodney and his sister have sibling rivlary to 10th degree. smile.gif

I love Culp. He's a very good actor. I could tell that he wasn't a real "bad" guy. I was kind of thinking that he would let Shep know that he hadn't truly injected Jeanie with the nanites. He only appeared to do it to get Rodney to cooperate. But he truly did do it, and regretted it. Shep told him the facts and left it up to him to decide what to do. I think by having him let the Wraith feed on him, they were showing that he truly wasn't a "bad" guy. He only wanted to save hig daughter.

While Ronon is always good to look at, I don't understand why he was there. As much as I feel that Teyla is a waste of time, they didn't even attempt an explanation as to why she wasn't there. Or if they did, I missed it.

I must admit that I didn't even think about the Wraith needing to feed until just a few seconds before he collapsed. So they hadn't been feeding him since they captured him? So what will they do now?

Edit: Oh and once again the SCI-FI channel blew it with their immediate preview.

Oh and I did love Rodney feeling guilty enough to get them a new car.

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Revan
post Dec 3rd 2007, 5:12 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 3:28 AM) *

Oh and I did love Rodney feeling guilty enough to get them a new car.

And it was a hybrid!
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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:41 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 5:12 AM) *

And it was a hybrid!


And it's a Prius!

I'm not a huge Toyota fan, but I do like the Prius and I'd like to get a hybrid. Though I love classic cars and prefer to drive vans and suvs, I want a hybrid for the fuel efficiency and the environmentally friendlier aspect of them. I do wonder if the Stargate franchise is getting to the endorsement game because of this episode.
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lancelot2
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:48 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 9:28 AM) *

I like that Rodney's sister is actually played by his real life sister. I liked her other appearance. I hope that there will be more. Rodney and his sister have sibling rivlary to 10th degree. smile.gif

I love Culp. He's a very good actor. I could tell that he wasn't a real "bad" guy. I was kind of thinking that he would let Shep know that he hadn't truly injected Jeanie with the nanites. He only appeared to do it to get Rodney to cooperate. But he truly did do it, and regretted it. Shep told him the facts and left it up to him to decide what to do. I think by having him let the Wraith feed on him, they were showing that he truly wasn't a "bad" guy. He only wanted to save hig daughter.

While Ronon is always good to look at, I don't understand why he was there. As much as I feel that Teyla is a waste of time, they didn't even attempt an explanation as to why she wasn't there. Or if they did, I missed it.

I must admit that I didn't even think about the Wraith needing to feed until just a few seconds before he collapsed. So they hadn't been feeding him since they captured him? So what will they do now?

Edit: Oh and once again the SCI-FI channel blew it with their immediate preview.

Oh and I did love Rodney feeling guilty enough to get them a new car.

on the feeding topic i would have thought that with the wraith basically starving at the moment why haven't they been looking for an alternative food source? maybe even an artificial version of what they get from humans it could be cloned human cells or something like that in a handy little glove or something.
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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:58 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 3:28 AM) *

While Ronon is always good to look at, I don't understand why he was there. As much as I feel that Teyla is a waste of time, they didn't even attempt an explanation as to why she wasn't there. Or if they did, I missed it.


They didn't try to explain why Teyla wasn't there, but I think it was obvious. She's pregnant and humans are paranoid enough to believe that gate travel may be harmful so they had her stay. She may have chosen to stay. She's still looking for her people and there's not much she could do to help because Earth is out of her depth.

The same can be said of Ronan but he's not pregnant and he doesn't feel he needs to understand much. As he said, "When you find someone to point a gun at, you let me know." I think it's possible that, knowing Ronan, he may have asked to go. Even though he appears annoyed with McKay most of the time, Rodney is family and therefore so is Jeannie to an extent. And nobody messes with Ronan's family and gets away with it. The other possibility is, John said, "We gotta go back to Earth because McKay's sister has been kidnapped. Wanna tag along? And Ronan said, "Sure." I can't help but wonder what went through his head, though, as he was traveling with John and Berret seeing Earth for the first time.

QUOTE(IndyJan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 3:28 AM) *

I must admit that I didn't even think about the Wraith needing to feed until just a few seconds before he collapsed. So they hadn't been feeding him since they captured him? So what will they do now?


Well, they couldn't feed him. Feeding him meant taking a human life or part of it and they'd never do that knowingly. I felt awful for him though because of it. Steve paced in his cell for weeks and didn't show any outward sign of weakness due to not feeding. This guy hasn't been on Atlantis that long and he's already weak enough to collapse and knowing how Huner is so much more terrible for Wraith, he must've been miserable. He's going to Hunger again soon and they still have the same dilemma of what to do with him. They're hoping to finish the Replicator deactivation code before he needs to feed that badly again.

I give Henry Wallace props for sticking to his guns when the first alien he's ever seen in person is a Wraith and is about to kill him painfully.

QUOTE(IndyJan @ Dec 3rd 2007, 3:28 AM) *

Edit: Oh and once again the SCI-FI channel blew it with their immediate preview.


What do you mean? I thought the episode had plenty of good stuff in it beyond what the preview showed.

This post has been edited by Samara Draven: Dec 3rd 2007, 8:20 AM
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Invisible Painting
post Dec 3rd 2007, 8:11 AM
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QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 3rd 2007, 12:58 PM) *

What do you mean? I thought the episode had plenty of good stuff in it beyond what the preview showed.

I think she means what they showed for next week, which would pee me off as well if they showed the trailers STRAIGHT after it, which they usually do.

And I agree Ronan being there maybe there was no overall point to it but how he got there there are a few simple explanations if you look for them. Samaras being one of them. But just to add to the note Ronan has seen Earth before in Sunday.

And one more thing Stargate has endorsed stuff before, you only need to watch Lost City pt1 to see all the Guiness references wink.gif
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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 8:29 AM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:11 AM) *

I think she means what they showed for next week, which would pee me off as well if they showed the trailers STRAIGHT after it, which they usually do.

And I agree Ronan being there maybe there was no overall point to it but how he got there there are a few simple explanations if you look for them. Samaras being one of them. But just to add to the note Ronan has seen Earth before in Sunday.

And one more thing Stargate has endorsed stuff before, you only need to watch Lost City pt1 to see all the Guiness references wink.gif


I don't remember Ronan getting to see Earth in 'Sunday'. I will have to rewatch it.

I suppose if you want to see the credits, it could ruin it. Maybe they could do what BSG does and show the next week after a couple of commercials. You know how they say, "Stay tuned for scenes from next week's episode."? Unless you guys are thinking they've already shown the best bits of next week's ep
» Click to Show Spoiler «
in their preview. But that would mean you've already passed judgement on an ep before seeing it. I guess I'm trying to see what you guys see, because I don't think the preview itself was bad or too good, but I do wish they'd give us a minute or two to digest the episode we just watched.

And I know Stargate has endorsed stuff before from time to time, but the Prius reference made me wonder about it again.

This post has been edited by Samara Draven: Dec 3rd 2007, 8:33 AM
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Invisible Painting
post Dec 3rd 2007, 8:35 AM
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QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 3rd 2007, 1:29 PM) *

I suppose if you want to see the credits, it could ruin it. Maybe they cAnd I know Stargate has endorsed stuff before from time to time, but the Prius reference made me wonder about it again.

Some people don't like seeing ANY spoilers though, myself included. And watching back over some of Sci fi's trailers in the past they do reveal a LOT about episodes (Lifeline for instance they show the whole plot in the commercial). I want to go into episodes being suprised though, you don't want to be having to be ready with the remote when the episode is nearing it's end in order to turn off because they don't really give you much choice otherwise but to see stuff.
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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 9:57 AM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:35 AM) *

Some people don't like seeing ANY spoilers though, myself included. And watching back over some of Sci fi's trailers in the past they do reveal a LOT about episodes (Lifeline for instance they show the whole plot in the commercial). I want to go into episodes being suprised though, you don't want to be having to be ready with the remote when the episode is nearing it's end in order to turn off because they don't really give you much choice otherwise but to see stuff.

I agree that showing too much is bad, but some viewers need that preview. They need to see something cool and go, "I so have to see that." The previews are designed to keep the viewer wanting to watch. I don't like it when they pretty much give away the whole plot in the preview, but I don't mind when they show tiny little insignificant details about the episode. As long as I know it's a new episode coming up, I'll watch it just because I like the show and want to see it. Showing a major plot point and some of the best bits of action or drama afterward pretty much gives up what the episode is about and how it goes down. I don't like that about any movie or show.

EDIT: Just watched 'Sunday' again and saw what you meant about Ronan going to Earth. I'd forgotten about that. I don't think he was doing much sightseeing, though. He was there for a very sad reason and since that was his first time, the IOA may have had the SGC keep him on base during the whole time, taking the opportunity of having him there in person to "fully debrief" him.

This post has been edited by Samara Draven: Dec 3rd 2007, 10:02 AM
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JTMAG1
post Dec 3rd 2007, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:29 AM) *

I don't remember Ronan getting to see Earth in 'Sunday'. I will have to rewatch it.

I suppose if you want to see the credits, it could ruin it. Maybe they could do what BSG does and show the next week after a couple of commercials. You know how they say, "Stay tuned for scenes from next week's episode."? Unless you guys are thinking they've already shown the best bits of next week's ep
» Click to Show Spoiler «
in their preview. But that would mean you've already passed judgement on an ep before seeing it. I guess I'm trying to see what you guys see, because I don't think the preview itself was bad or too good, but I do wish they'd give us a minute or two to digest the episode we just watched.

And I know Stargate has endorsed stuff before from time to time, but the Prius reference made me wonder about it again.

I do remember anyone seeing Earth in Sunday either.

The problem with the spoiler was
» Click to Show Spoiler «


I personally dont like to know anything about the up coming episodes. When the show ends, and they say stay tuned for next week, I always try to turn or stop the DVR. Fox is bad about this too, with serial shows like Prison Break and 24. The shows are predicated on suspense, and they take the suspense away mad.gif
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dr lee
post Dec 3rd 2007, 12:03 PM
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Wasn't Ronon part of the coffin procession that walked through the gate to earth in Sunday?

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Invisible Painting
post Dec 3rd 2007, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE(dr lee @ Dec 3rd 2007, 5:03 PM) *

Wasn't Ronon part of the coffin procession that walked through the gate to earth in Sunday?

Yep, that's when he saw Earth. No scenes were on Earth, but we did see him walking through the gate there, along with Rodney and some others.

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IndyJan
post Dec 3rd 2007, 2:57 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:35 AM) *

Some people don't like seeing ANY spoilers though, myself included. And watching back over some of Sci fi's trailers in the past they do reveal a LOT about episodes (Lifeline for instance they show the whole plot in the commercial). I want to go into episodes being suprised though, you don't want to be having to be ready with the remote when the episode is nearing it's end in order to turn off because they don't really give you much choice otherwise but to see stuff.


Exactly, I don't mind a bit here and there to get you interested, but what they showed immediately and I mean immediately after the show was a huge spoiler, IMO. I would have rather been surprised by it all.
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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 5:28 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Dec 3rd 2007, 11:59 AM) *


The problem with the spoiler was
» Click to Show Spoiler «



Yeah that would've been. And I get that. As I said, I don't mind smaller details that show a vague grasp of the ep, but that would've been a huge surprise. I'd have liked that.

» Click to Show Spoiler «


It's a very grey line I guess. So shutting out previews altogether makes sense for those who don't like major spoilers. Why bother with chancing it? I can totally understand that.
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Sylver
post Dec 3rd 2007, 6:00 PM
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QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:58 AM) *

They didn't try to explain why Teyla wasn't there, but I think it was obvious. She's pregnant and humans are paranoid enough to believe that gate travel may be harmful so they had her stay. She may have chosen to stay. She's still looking for her people and there's not much she could do to help because Earth is out of her depth.


Other than the doctor, does anyone else know she's pregnant? I didn't think so, but may have missed that rather large revelation.

QUOTE(Samara Draven @ Dec 3rd 2007, 8:58 AM) *

I give Henry Wallace props for sticking to his guns when the first alien he's ever seen in person is a Wraith and is about to kill him painfully.


I give him and the writers credit for taking this route. The reasoning, the ending, the whole thing. OK, and I adore Steven Culp. wub.gif That aside, the last contractor to figure the Stargate program out was a near-wacko who wanted to show everyone the truth without thought for the people who worked for him and their families. This 'high-route' was more interesting, and I think they used the nanites far better than the Asgard clone.

Over all, McKay and his sister are great together and their scenes are hilarious as well as forward moving. Also a nice contrast between him trying to find a way out, whereas in previous seasons he just helped because there was a gun to his head, and her wanting to help because of the sick and dying child. He wanted to save both himself and his sister, and she wanted to save someone else.

I have to echo previous posts: Just what did happen to the NID guy? How'd he turn into such an idiot? And wasn't he under some kind of mind control a year or 2 ago?

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Samara Draven
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:37 PM
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QUOTE(Sylver @ Dec 3rd 2007, 6:00 PM) *

Other than the doctor, does anyone else know she's pregnant? I didn't think so, but may have missed that rather large revelation.


I don't think Teyla has told anyone else yet, but the doctor may have been the one to discourage her from going through the gate. Or she might have decided that on her own. Her people are still out there and she's determined to find them. She has no specialty that she can offer the guys in their investigation, except to point a gun at someone, but she has more think about then her own safety now. I hope TPTB don't gloss over the announcement of her pregnancy. I'd like to see her teammates' reactions, instead of having Sheppard refer to her 'condition' off hand like he's know for a while and we're supposed to accept that he or anyone else knows when they haven't shown it. I dislike those kinds of production shortcuts immensely.
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JTMAG1
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:42 PM
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Well, at some point the doctor will have to step in and say that Teyla is physically unfit to continue her duties. If she doesn't come out and say something first, things might be all bad between her and her people
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Revan
post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:42 PM
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Why are we searching for a reason?


I imagine, due to their filming schedule, RL wasn't in this episode due to the whole pregnancy thing. Why does it need explained? Ronon was on Earth and Teyla was not... that is sufficient explanation for me.
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post Dec 3rd 2007, 7:55 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Dec 4th 2007, 12:42 AM) *

Why are we searching for a reason?
I imagine, due to their filming schedule, RL wasn't in this episode due to the whole pregnancy thing. Why does it need explained? Ronon was on Earth and Teyla was not... that is sufficient explanation for me.

She was barely in the episode 'Intruder' as well, as she had no reason to be there. She had none here as well, and her AND Ronan being there would have just clogged it up with characters who have no real reason being there.
Her pregnancy may have factored into it as well (as in the actresses) but even if not it fits perfectly fine her not being there.
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