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> 409 - Miller's Crossing
Rating  4
Arcady
post Nov 30th 2007, 9:41 PM
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Season 4, Episode 9 - Miller's Crossing
Air date: November 30, 2007

When McKay's sister is kidnapped, the team returns to Earth to find her.

Episode Guide | Spoilers | Teaser

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
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Protoziggy90
post Nov 30th 2007, 11:04 PM
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Okay, I give this a 4/5. I really enjoyed this episode. Now the details:

I loved the beginning with Rodney and the science team. That scene was hilarious.

I thought the plot in general, despite being unrelated to the story arc, was really good.

I enjoyed the siblings getting together again. I loved it the first time and I loved it this time as well. In particular, I loved the end when she wakes up and guilts Rodney into getting her a car.

Also, I really liked that the team was actually on Earth for an episode, particularly non-humans like Ronin and our friend the wraith. I wonder why Teyla wasn't in the episode at all though (well, I guess we know why she wasn't, but I wish she finally got to see Earth...).

Anyways, looking forward to Weir next episode...
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Revan
post Dec 1st 2007, 1:18 AM
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So, in the form of McKay's niece, Sheppard has finally found somebody his own age to play with. biggrin.gif

Yay Steven Culp!

Superb episode. I especially liked the moral ambiguity at the end, followed by "Who's been lying to you?"

I'm even starting to like this wraith.
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JTMAG1
post Dec 1st 2007, 2:11 AM
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This episode was alright to me. it was fairly predicatble to me, right down Sheppard calling the Wraith a specialist.

I thoroughly like this Wraith. His Yawn was priceless. I always figure when they capture a Wraith, the issue of feeding them will come up sooner or later.

The whole Sheppard talking the guy into sacrificing himself at the end was a little disturbing to me for some reason.

The conversation in the mess was entertaining.

So, do they just open the gate from Atlantis to Earth for Rodney to send an email, or how does anyone speculate that that works.

This post has been edited by JTMAG1: Dec 1st 2007, 3:03 AM
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Revan
post Dec 1st 2007, 3:21 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Dec 1st 2007, 2:11 AM) *

I thoroughly like this Wraith. His Yawn was priceless. I always figure when they capture a Wraith, the issue of feeding them will come up sooner or later.

The whole Sheppard talking the guy into sacrificing himself at the end was a little disturbing to me for some reason.

The conversation in the mess was entertaining.

So, do they just open the gate from Atlantis to Earth for Rodney to send an email, or how does anyone speculate that that works.

The feeding thing only occurred to me when he collapsed.

It was disturbing to me as well. I had a feeling he was going to do it, but when he finally did... it was just... disturbing.... sad.gif

I felt bad for Ronon... He didn't seem to have much fun on Earth.

They probably transfer it to midway then the SGC, where it goes into the network and is sent out like all the rest of the mail.
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JTMAG1
post Dec 1st 2007, 4:04 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Dec 1st 2007, 3:21 AM) *

The feeding thing only occurred to me when he collapsed.

It was disturbing to me as well. I had a feeling he was going to do it, but when he finally did... it was just... disturbing.... sad.gif

I felt bad for Ronon... He didn't seem to have much fun on Earth.

They probably transfer it to midway then the SGC, where it goes into the network and is sent out like all the rest of the mail.

That makes sense.

Yeah, Earth much suck to Ronan, after what he got to see. At least when Teyla was piggy backing into Sheppards memories of Earth she got to go to a party.
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stalker0
post Dec 1st 2007, 4:27 AM
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Overall I liked this episode, though I actually wished it was a two parter.

In many places it felt too quick to me. It was Atlantis' first earth based mission, it would have been nice to explore that a little bit. Heck, it was Ronin's first time on earth and he didn't mention anything.

And man, when Carter cut off Bennet's balls last time and turned him down, she really did it. The guy was a complete wuss in this episode, what happened to the Bennett he was a competent cop?

I did love the Wraith/Shepard thing at the end. It was totally expected once the feeding thing was mention, but they did it very well.

And let me say, it was refreshing to have a bad guy with no crazy ulterior motive, no double cross, just a genuine guy doing anything for a daughter.
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JTMAG1
post Dec 1st 2007, 5:29 AM
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QUOTE(stalker0 @ Dec 1st 2007, 4:27 AM) *

And let me say, it was refreshing to have a bad guy with no crazy ulterior motive, no double cross, just a genuine guy doing anything for a daughter.

That actually makes him a good guy doesn't it?
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Aazadan
post Dec 1st 2007, 6:28 AM
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I don't normally comment on episodes but I have to say, what Sheppard did there with the guy really stood out to me. Besides it showing the length he would goto to help a friend and/or a member of his team I found it interesting that he didn't tell Rodney the truth of what happened in the end. Lying to the guy about his daughter still being alive so he would become a food source for the Wraith, it reminded me of some of the darker aspects of season 1 except far worse. That whole part of the episode just stuck out to me because it's very different from how SGA (and for that matter SG1) has been, good scenes anyways though I especially liked that they didn't show the guy being fed on it was simply Shepard "presenting the situation" and then the guy being wheeled out in a body bag, and the viewer could use their imagination to fill in how the rest of that part went.
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KillerMarv
post Dec 1st 2007, 6:28 AM
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McKay has really changed across the years. I can't remember him being this person ever, willing to sacrifice himself no matter for whom. Yes, it was a very good episode. Parts of the episode were predictable, like the part about who will sacrifice in order for the Wraith to continue his work. biggrin.gif

That Wraith better not escape from Atlantis now. He knows more about Atlantis than any other Wraith, and he knows something about Earth as well (even if nothing really relevant). 1.gif

The episode also used a useless character: Sheppard and Bennett were necessary due to the fact that they needed to use one character from each side of the gate to coordinate the operation, but why was Ronon there? Is he Sheppard's bodyguard or something? whistling.gif

Also, to me, Sheppard crossed a line there. The minute he welcomed that Henry guy in I knew he was gonna convince him somehow to sacrifice himself. I don't think anyone can cover up what he decided there. It is his fault that the Wraith was brought to the SGC in the first place.

A fair 3/5 to this episode.

This post has been edited by KillerMarv: Dec 1st 2007, 6:30 AM
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Revan
post Dec 1st 2007, 8:05 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Dec 1st 2007, 6:28 AM) *

McKay has really changed across the years. I can't remember him being this person ever, willing to sacrifice himself no matter for whom. Yes, it was a very good episode. Parts of the episode were predictable, like the part about who will sacrifice in order for the Wraith to continue his work. biggrin.gif

Its partially McKay's fault. He tried to escape in the beginning, which put his sister in danger. He should have just waited for the NID and SGC to come and get him.

He was willing to sacrifice himself for his sister, which doesn't mean he would do it for anybody.
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Invisible Painting
post Dec 1st 2007, 10:07 AM
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It was different to get an Earth based Atlantis episode, but not a bad thing and it's good to have that difference. I thought Sheppard filled in the role there very well. Ronan on Earth yeah maybe not a productive thing but still good to have him there and to see what he's like in Earths culture, we know he's been there before in Sunday but we didn't get to see him there, and I think Sheppard needed someone other then Barrett to talk to, someone he did rely on and trust.

The ending with Sheppard feeding the guy to the Wraith basically, I liked it. I thought it was good, it was dark but then again it's not just all happy in worlds like these. I wouldn't believe the guy simply sacraficing himself for Mckays sister, so I think the way they handled it was good. And I thought it was a good thing to be there.
And again while we're on that guy it was also good to see as someone else mentioned him not just being an evil bad guy but just someone looking out for their family, they have good reasons for doing what they were doing which weren't cheapened.
The overall theme of this episode about family and what they would do for each other (also reflecting on what Sheppard would do for Mckay being a kind of 'family' in his mind) was strong and it was good having most peoples dilemas about family ties being reproduced for other characters later on (such as the guys willingness to go to prison to save his daughter which Mckay didn't understand, and then putting him in that situation at the end being willing to sacrafice himself to the Wraith for his sister) and it was good, I think you can tell that most of the writers of this show have kids themselves based on how it was handled and written tbh.

Overall I liked it, there have been a couple of better episodes before but that doesn't relate anything to this one. A good episode probably 8/10 for me.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Dec 1st 2007, 10:11 AM
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Raxor
post Dec 1st 2007, 10:50 AM
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Better than i thought it would be. Mckay isnt one to usually act like it - he seems to have changed over the past season or so. I was surpised not to see General Landry in this episode at all (i guess due to filming the movie or something).

I found the start to be a little funny, though i completely forgot about his sister and thought he was refering to Sam.

Im thinking that the guy who got killed by the wraith thought he had nothing to live for - not essentially ordered by Shepperd to go meet with him. You can see a big sense of family honour etc in this episode.

Id rate it ***1/2, one that hopefully has concequences on the characters actions later on in the series.
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danielfan
post Dec 1st 2007, 1:39 PM
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QUOTE
Lying to the guy about his daughter still being alive so he would become a food source for the Wraith, it reminded me of some of the darker aspects of season 1 except far worse.


Did he lie to the guy, or did the daughter really die. I just assumed that the daughter did die as John said, but they just didn't show it on screen.



QUOTE
The episode also used a useless character: Sheppard and Bennett were necessary due to the fact that they needed to use one character from each side of the gate to coordinate the operation, but why was Ronon there? Is he Sheppard's bodyguard or something


While for the most part Ronan was useless, I loved the scene with him dressed just like John


QUOTE
Better than i thought it would be. Mckay isnt one to usually act like it - he seems to have changed over the past season or so. I was surpised not to see General Landry in this episode at all (i guess due to filming the movie or something).


I really like the changes in Rodney. The way the character was originally written/portrayed would have gotten very old after a while.
As for Laundry.... Could be the filming of the movies, or my guess is that we'll just see the "local"(local to studio where Atlantis is/SG-a was filmed) SG-1 actors in Atlantis. It wouldn't be worth the $$ the fly Bridges in for a cameo. Then again they could film his cameos in his location and splice the scene in like they did some of RDA's appearances in SG-1

I give the epoisode a B+, or 3 1/2 stars. Liked it, and loved some scenes, but over all wasn't overly impressed.

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Aazadan
post Dec 1st 2007, 2:01 PM
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QUOTE(danielfan @ Dec 1st 2007, 2:39 PM) *

Did he lie to the guy, or did the daughter really die. I just assumed that the daughter did die as John said, but they just didn't show it on screen.


I thought so unless I misheard it. When Rodney was about to sacrifice himself he told Shepard that the girl died 30 minutes ago. When Shepard was then with the guy who had kidnapped Rodney and his sister he said the guys daughter was in bad shape and at this rate she wasn't going to make it which made it look to me like Shepard told him that he could sacrifice his life to the Wraith to save his daughter and Rodney's sister.
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Pitry
post Dec 1st 2007, 2:28 PM
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Yayayay! Great episode.

I think the ending was supposed to be disturbing. For once, they didn't gloss over it - it seemed, at least to me, Sheppard knows full well what he's done and is not proud of it. You don't come out from this in the feeling of "Oooh, Jeannie's alive, way to go Sheppard" - you come out of this with the general feeling of "Eurgh, Sheppard has more or less just murdered someone, didn't he." I'm quite proud of SGA to take this route.

Rodney's development is wodnerful. Truely, the one really developed character in this series - but it really shows in episodes such as these. Kate Hewlett as Jeannie was wonderful! I want her as a regular cast member biggrin.gif And yeah,t he scene in the beginning was hilarious, loved it. And all the Rodney (or should I say, Meredith?) and Jeannie scenes.

I like this wraith. I really do. I don't know if it's because it's not the regular wraith actor or because they're actually trying to give him some personality,but I really like him. And what a nice little scene - both Rondey and wraith wise - when he tried convincing him to help.

So, yayayayay!

Edit - yes, Sharon did die, that's what Rondey told Sheppard when he was trying to convince him to let the wraith feed on him.

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ancient01
post Dec 1st 2007, 3:59 PM
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I enjoyed this one. I wasn't sure I would, but it definitely kept my interest. I think that creating situations where the characters are forced into moralally questionable circumstances it draws us into the story. This one did that really well. Thumbs up!
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danielfan
post Dec 1st 2007, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE
I thought so unless I misheard it. When Rodney was about to sacrifice himself he told Shepard that the girl died 30 minutes ago. When Shepard was then with the guy who had kidnapped Rodney and his sister he said the guys daughter was in bad shape and at this rate she wasn't going to make it which made it look to me like Shepard told him that he could sacrifice his life to the Wraith to save his daughter and Rodney's sister.


I thought he told the guy that his daughter died and that Rodney's sister was in bad shape.
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Aazadan
post Dec 2nd 2007, 12:41 AM
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Hmm, rewatched it and you're right. That makes the scene not seem as bad. Shepard convinced the guy to kill himself while telling the truth rather than lie to help convince him.
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JTMAG1
post Dec 2nd 2007, 1:42 AM
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I'm not sure why people think Sheppard lied, All he did was give the guy a guilt trip based on the current circumstances of his actions. It might have been a disturbing thing to do, but he didn't lie or trick the guy at all.
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Aazadan
post Dec 2nd 2007, 2:10 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Dec 2nd 2007, 2:42 AM) *

I'm not sure why people think Sheppard lied, All he did was give the guy a guilt trip based on the current circumstances of his actions. It might have been a disturbing thing to do, but he didn't lie or trick the guy at all.


*shrug* I misheard the scene and I'm not all that great with names. After rewatching it, it's obvious what he did. It cut in as he was telling the guy his daughter is dead and then guilted the guy into feeding himself to a wraith to make up for what he had done. That changes the whole tone of that scene and the scene when they're back on Atlantis. One thing I don't get though is why did Rodney have to steal Dr. Lee's ID to get into the lab? Certainly he would have access to get in there.

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JTMAG1
post Dec 2nd 2007, 2:14 AM
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QUOTE(Aazadan @ Dec 2nd 2007, 2:10 AM) *

*shrug* I misheard the scene and I'm not all that great with names. After rewatching it, it's obvious what he did. It cut in as he was telling the guy his daughter is dead and then guilted the guy into feeding himself to a wraith to make up for what he had done. That changes the whole tone of that scene and the scene when they're back on Atlantis. One thing I don't get though is why did Rodney have to steal Dr. Lee's ID to get into the lab? Certainly he would have access to get in there.

They knew that Rodney was going to try to feed himself to the Wraith, so they locked him out of the lab while the Wraith worked on the project.
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danielfan
post Dec 2nd 2007, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE
Its partially McKay's fault. He tried to escape in the beginning, which put his sister in danger. He should have just waited for the NID and SGC to come and get him.

He was willing to sacrifice himself for his sister, which doesn't mean he would do it for anybody.


I think Rodney would do it for anyone in the team or maybe anyone at atlantis. I can't help but think of the message he made for his sister where he said something like the people he works with have become his family and made him see how important family is.
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Invisible Painting
post Dec 2nd 2007, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE(danielfan @ Dec 2nd 2007, 4:49 PM) *

I think Rodney would do it for anyone in the team or maybe anyone at atlantis. I can't help but think of the message he made for his sister where he said something like the people he works with have become his family and made him see how important family is.

Tbh, I'm not as sure about that. He would do a lot for that team, but I'm not sure if he's at the point where he would do that yet. Sheppard would, but I'm not sure Mckay's reached that step yet.
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