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ancient01
post Nov 12th 2007, 6:45 AM
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This episode better be a part of a good story arc. By itself, it was sorely lacking in my opinion. I like the idea of Michael being involved. Keller was just plain anoying. One would think that being put in that situation, a person would actually step up the plate and suck up the whining... Anyhow, hopefully they'll build up her character a little more quickly now.
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Invisible Painting
post Nov 12th 2007, 8:29 AM
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The shroud was a good episode, and did develop the arc. But we never saw the consequences of that, they chose to follow up the next four episodes after that with nothing to do with the Ori. 4 more ish ships came through at the end of The Shroud, but we never saw that followed up on at all. What was the point in it? Had the show not been cancelled I think they would have stuck to their original direction and it would have made more sense, but after all the arcs and then the sudden events from Dominion it just seemed a bit rushed. The stories built in season 10 and then went no where at the end. Kinda like a joke where you forget the punchline.

Dominion was great, and some of the plot twists were genius I think. But it didn't fit as well, and by episodes end not really that much had changed. So after the Shroud there wasn't really anything major plotwise that happened with the Ori, which may have been why SG-1 season 10 may have felt a bit empty towards the end, even though I think Dominion and Unending are both fantastic episodes. Family Ties wasn't, and as I've said before they should have gotten rid of Family Ties, extended Dominion into a two parter and explored what Ba'al would have done inside Adria, as it would have been a great storyline to follow and make part two about trying to Capture Ba'al/Adria and then the ending follow the ending from Dominion.

But the Teyla arc I don't think will just become like the search for the Harsesis, I think it will be developments and there will still be twists in the turnpipe. I think having Michael being the one who did it would be awesome, and the best possible scenereo they could think of. Michaels always been good due to the relationship they all have with him, and the immense backstory. Developing Michaels bug people as their own thread I don't think would work as well either and may seem a bit pointless. (Ok it did in Vengeance as well)

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Nov 12th 2007, 8:31 AM
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Athena
post Nov 12th 2007, 10:53 AM
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When Teyla mentioned that the Bolachi were cannibals, I immediately thought about the Reavers in the series Firefly. But, the Reavers were a heck of a lot scarier.

My sister was surprised at Keller acting so wimpy, thinking that Dr. Keller was a military doctor. But, I told her I didn’t think Keller was military. Keller’s wimpiness actually reminded me of Jewel Staite’s character in Firefly (Kaylee Frye). Kaylee was a wimp in that series also, until the theatrical movie Serenity, where she helped fight off the Reavers.

I thought the episode was okay, but the whole time I kept thinking - when are they going to show Atlantis. I guess Teyla and Keller are not my favorite characters.

I totally missed the Bolachi eating a lollipop. I'll have to watch the episode again.
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Pitry
post Nov 12th 2007, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Nov 12th 2007, 9:01 AM) *

Dominion was rewritten into a one-story arc because of the cancellation of the series.


Dominion! Thank you. And I had problem with the story - I'm not sure stretching it on more episodes would have worked. I jsut don't like the whole Adria ascended bit, one bit.


QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Nov 12th 2007, 3:29 PM) *

The shroud was a good episode, and did develop the arc. But we never saw the consequences of that, they chose to follow up the next four episodes after that with nothing to do with the Ori. 4 more ish ships came through at the end of The Shroud, but we never saw that followed up on at all. What was the point in it? Had the show not been cancelled I think they would have stuck to their original direction and it would have made more sense, but after all the arcs and then the sudden events from Dominion it just seemed a bit rushed. The stories built in season 10 and then went no where at the end. Kinda like a joke where you forget the punchline.


True - but, as I replied to Rev - I also just didn't like where they were taking the plot. I think the Oris tory had more potential than what it was given, and it was a terrible anti-climax, and byt he time Dominion arrived, I did feel all "yeah yeah whatever" about the whole thing - just 5 weeks afterwards.
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Hal 9000i
post Nov 12th 2007, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(ancient01 @ Nov 12th 2007, 5:45 AM) *

This episode better be a part of a good story arc. By itself, it was sorely lacking in my opinion. I like the idea of Michael being involved. Keller was just plain anoying. One would think that being put in that situation, a person would actually step up the plate and suck up the whining... Anyhow, hopefully they'll build up her character a little more quickly now.



Looking through the posts, there’s seems to be a lot of comments on Keller’s lack of intestinal fortitude.

Personally, I think it was very realistic.

Not everyone is a warrior. The skills she brings to the table are very different than those of Teyla or Sheppard.

I’m not even sure Keller is in the military. She’s a medical doctor with little or no training in weapons, infantry tactics, or self defense.

Given her background, training, and experience level, her reaction to the situation she found herself in was both predictable and expected.

What I think is going on here is this (as it applies to the TV action/sci-fi/adventure shows):

Over the last decade people have become trained to expect that any young, attractive woman is naturally going to be a kick ass warrior.

In many cases, these women have special “powers”. Perhaps they’re supernatural in origin. Or maybe through “genetic enhancement”. Or through some sort of technology. Or through plain old fashion training.

The point is it’s now a given that any young woman is going to be able to handle herself in a fight. Her opponent’s size, sex or numbers don’t really matter. Nor do the physics of the situation-- a 5’4” woman who weighs 105 pounds will be able to take a 6’3” guy who outweighs her by 100 pounds.

People are now just so used to seeing the above that when it’s portrayed any other way, they walk away scratching their heads.

JMO.

Hal
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Ziu
post Nov 12th 2007, 1:48 PM
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Good thing I taped this episode, otherwise I would have been very pissed for loosing sleep. I always catch the second showing as I watch something else during the first showing.
The story could have been told within 30 mInutes or less. Based on the previews of Number 408, they could have combined 407 and 408 and made it a 90 minute episode.
At the rate SGA is going, they will be lucky if anybody tunes in for Season 5. king.gif

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Invisible Painting
post Nov 12th 2007, 2:25 PM
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QUOTE(Hal 9000i @ Nov 12th 2007, 5:43 PM) *
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Her reactions were quite realistic I'll give you that, but it just seemed her role in the episode was to be saved by Teyla the whole time, like when she slipped on the rope bridge so Teyla could save her, just seemed a very princess calling from the top of the castle role for her most of the episode. Until she rugby tackled the guy, which helped her out. I like her character, but in this episode she was slightly annoying at the begining.
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Revan
post Nov 12th 2007, 3:53 PM
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I think I was annoyed by Keller for about 75% of the time during this episode.
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HSV
post Nov 12th 2007, 6:21 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Nov 13th 2007, 6:53 AM) *

I think I was annoyed by Keller for about 75% of the time during this episode.

I hate it when the damsel in distress (Keller) sprains their anckle! mad.gif
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JTMAG1
post Nov 12th 2007, 6:38 PM
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I saw the ankle sprain as soon as Teyla went for that hill and traversed it so easily.
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HSV
post Nov 12th 2007, 7:13 PM
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This is the first episode i disliked if it wasn't for sheperd and crew coming in at the end i would have hated it! of course that's my opinion.
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Revan
post Nov 13th 2007, 2:04 AM
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The only thing that saved this episode was Keller telling Nabel that she needed something to heal. laugh.gif
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IndyJan
post Nov 13th 2007, 2:37 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Nov 12th 2007, 3:53 PM) *

I think I was annoyed by Keller for about 75% of the time during this episode.


QUOTE(HSV @ Nov 12th 2007, 6:21 PM) *

I hate it when the damsel in distress (Keller) sprains their anckle! mad.gif


Unfortunately Keller has been annnoying almost from the get go. The writers/producers are to blame for that. I have always said don't introduce a new character to an established series by having them on all the time. If you want the fans to accept someone new, gradually ease them into the series.

Keller falling and spraining her ankle was the typical damsel in distress plotline. I would think that they could come up with something new, but remember that M & M are the ones in charge of SGA this season. Even if they don't actually write the story, they have to give their approval, which most times stinks. mad.gif
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Dave312
post Nov 13th 2007, 3:07 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Nov 13th 2007, 6:37 PM) *

If you want the fans to accept someone new, gradually ease them into the series.


100% True. Although I wouldn't say that I dislike Keller, having her as a major figure in most episodes this season is becoming very annoying. I do appreciate that they decided to put some Keller development into this episode, but having it forced down your throat is not the way to do it.
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Skymouse
post Nov 13th 2007, 7:42 AM
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I thought the poor ole doc was going to be shot be Teyla at one point for continually moaning!!
A good episode that had me thinking what race could possibly take everyone from the settlement, including the weapons. This leaves, wraith, replicators, michael & his bugmen and the travellers.
I didn't buy the wraith worshipper, it was too easy.
Michael is a possibility but I don't think that's the answer.
The travellers could use a flying city to house their people, but again I think it's probably unlikely.
I'd go with the replicators at the moment. The reasons are:
1) They want to find and destroy atlantis
2) They have the capability of taking an entire village without leaving evidence.
3) I think the chap who was caught was actually taken over by nanites.

3 explanation

Doctor Weir was nearly taken over originally when Liam infected her with nanites, if the replicators do this to others, you get perfect spies in human settlements. As the replicators are known to kill humans, wraith and now ancients and those with ancient genes, it makes them one of the biggest threats around. As they are intelligent it makes sense to think they would employ other methods alongside sending fleats to kill off the wraith. Destroying/poisoning a food source is an easy way of killing off predators without having to actually fight them.

Anyway, it's just a thought. I'd imagine I'll be completely wrong in the end!! biggrin.gif
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Invisible Painting
post Nov 13th 2007, 11:34 AM
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Well if he had become part nanite, like Weir he could probably stick his hand in someones head. So he would have probably done that. Plus a few things about it don't quite add up, they have bigger fish to fry then capturing the Athosians.

QUOTE(Dave312 @ Nov 13th 2007, 8:07 AM) *

100% True. Although I wouldn't say that I dislike Keller, having her as a major figure in most episodes this season is becoming very annoying. I do appreciate that they decided to put some Keller development into this episode, but having it forced down your throat is not the way to do it.

Well they're treating Keller like a main cast member, not a reccuring who like Lorne you get to like gradually as he appears more. She may not be on the main cast but they're treating her like she is, which is one reason I don't have a problem with her screen time as I kinda see her as a main character as well. So I see the screen time as justified but others may not see it as that way.

This post has been edited by Invisible Painting: Nov 13th 2007, 11:35 AM
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Revan
post Nov 13th 2007, 12:28 PM
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Had he been nanite infected, he would have broken his restraints and healed himself.

EDIT: And he would have grown all his hair back...
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Skymouse
post Nov 13th 2007, 12:41 PM
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Good points, scratch the replicators then biggrin.gif
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Hal 9000i
post Nov 13th 2007, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Nov 13th 2007, 10:34 AM) *

Well if he had become part nanite, like Weir he could probably stick his hand in someones head. So he would have probably done that. Plus a few things about it don't quite add up, they have bigger fish to fry then capturing the Athosians.
Well they're treating Keller like a main cast member, not a reccuring who like Lorne you get to like gradually as he appears more. She may not be on the main cast but they're treating her like she is, which is one reason I don't have a problem with her screen time as I kinda see her as a main character as well. So I see the screen time as justified but others may not see it as that way.



To understand the Keller character and her place on the show, I believe you have to examine why TPTB replaced Paul McGillion and put JS in his place.

Do you think they did that on a whim? that they jumped through all those hoops and put up with the fan outcry just to utilize the new character in the same way as the old?

Ask yourself why would they do that? what possible gain or benefit would be garnered?

I honestly don't see the mystery here. To me, it's crystal clear why JS is now on the show and its certain she's going to have a major role on the show-- much more so than PM ever did.

Hal
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Invisible Painting
post Nov 13th 2007, 1:04 PM
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QUOTE(Hal 9000i @ Nov 13th 2007, 5:55 PM) *

To understand the Keller character and her place on the show, I believe you have to examine why TPTB replaced Paul McGillion and put JS in his place.

Do you think they did that on a whim? that they jumped through all those hoops and put up with the fan outcry just to utilize the new character in the same way as the old?

Ask yourself why would they do that? what possible gain or benefit would be garnered?

I honestly don't see the mystery here. To me, it's crystal clear why JS is now on the show and its certain she's going to have a major role on the show-- much more so than PM ever did.

Hal

The decision to bring JS or Keller onto the show was made AFTER the decision to get rid of Beckett, they weren't trying to replace Beckett in order to get some better fan service on the show. They're just trying to get the new character to be a part of the show now, getting rid of Beckett not that many people will say it was a good move, but as I've said before Id'd rather them make an effort to bring someone new in then just leave it. I like the fact that we're seeing a lot of her character, and like her. My onnly problem with this episode was she was too much a damsel in distress, and it seemed like that was her only point in being in the episode at the begining.
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Hal 9000i
post Nov 13th 2007, 2:42 PM
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QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Nov 13th 2007, 12:04 PM) *

The decision to bring JS or Keller onto the show was made AFTER the decision to get rid of Beckett, they weren't trying to replace Beckett in order to get some better fan service on the show. They're just trying to get the new character to be a part of the show now, getting rid of Beckett not that many people will say it was a good move, but as I've said before Id'd rather them make an effort to bring someone new in then just leave it. I like the fact that we're seeing a lot of her character, and like her. My onnly problem with this episode was she was too much a damsel in distress, and it seemed like that was her only point in being in the episode at the begining.



Someone high up in the show decided that the Carson character wasn't working out. Regardless of when JS was actually hired, I don't think the intention was to replace PM with another middle aged guy with an expanding waistline, cute accent not withstanding (and also keep the new character's participation at the same level as PM).

Nor do I believe it was done just on some random impulse to have a new character introduced. It was done for a very specific reason. I've speculated on this in earlier threads. I'm not saying I'm right and know for sure, but it seems to me the most logical explanation.

As for the Keller character being too much a damsel in distress: again, it might have been overkill, but I believe it was done for a reason.

She's the new kid on the block and not experienced-- she's not a warrior. She's raw, untested, but has the ability to grow.

My take is that they had her do all the whining, damsel in distress stuff to set the parameters of her character-- to establish a bench mark where future growth and changes could be measured. However, that's just my speculation.

And as I mentioned in a previous thread, I really think it grates on people to show a young, attractive woman whose not portrayed as a strong, kick ass warrior. If you've come of age watching these type of shows for the last 10 years, the Keller portrayal just hits you the wrong way. It's not politically correct.

Consider: If Keller was a 50 year old woman with gray hair and wrinkles who looked like someone's mom, you would expect and buy in to the fact that she would probably whine and not be able to handle herself in that situation.

Also consider: If it were Zelenka with Teyla doing the whining, you'd probably buy in to it with no problem. He'd just be some doofus guy who needed a strong woman around to keep him out of trouble. That's a scenario that you're used to seeing.

But to have someone like JS be shown as rather helpless and dependent, well that just doesn't sit right. It's not what you've been trained and socialized to expect.

One final point about the whining and inexperience: This used to be the province of McKay. It still is to some degree. While McKay is no warrior, he has gained some weapon handling skills and some basic fighting skills. He's also gained a lot of off world experience.

So I believe TPTB have off loaded some of ingenue "fish out of water" stuff to the Keller character.

Hal

This post has been edited by Hal 9000i: Nov 13th 2007, 2:51 PM
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seymour
post Nov 13th 2007, 9:38 PM
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QUOTE(Hal 9000i @ Nov 13th 2007, 2:42 PM) *
....So I believe TPTB have off loaded some of ingenue "fish out of water" stuff to the Keller character.....Hal

Yep. I agree. makes sense.

But you forgot to add the importance of adding a new, young attractive female for the important young male viewers who of course could not be expected to care about a

".. a 50 year old woman with gray hair and wrinkles who looked like someone's mom you would expect and buy in to the fact that she would probably whine and not be able to handle herself in that situation..."

Guess, that's what YOU'VE been trained and socialized to expect.



This post has been edited by seymour: Nov 13th 2007, 9:45 PM
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Hal 9000i
post Nov 13th 2007, 9:57 PM
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QUOTE(seymour @ Nov 13th 2007, 8:38 PM) *

Yep. I agree. makes sense.

But you forgot to add the importance of adding a new, young attractive female for the important young male viewers who of course could not be expected to care about a

".. a 50 year old woman with gray hair and wrinkles who looked like someone's mom you would expect and buy in to the fact that she would probably whine and not be able to handle herself in that situation..."

Guess, that's what YOU'VE been trained and socialized to expect.


What? see earlier posts same thread.

Hal
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Revan
post Nov 13th 2007, 10:06 PM
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Hal, are you prejudiced against 50-year-old women?

While an older person would tend to be more prone to damage, I don't think they would be more likely to whine...
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