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> 404 - Doppelganger
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Dafmeister
post Nov 11th 2007, 11:08 AM
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There are plenty of other military personell who have been in Pegasus for the same amount of time and people like Teyla and Ronon are more of an asset because they have lived their entire lives in Pegasus. Sheppard is an easily replaceable member of the expedition because his time in Pegasus doesn't count for much when compared to Teyla and Ronon and there are better officers who could replace him.
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JC1
post Nov 11th 2007, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Nov 11th 2007, 4:08 PM) *

There are plenty of other military personell who have been in Pegasus for the same amount of time and people like Teyla and Ronon are more of an asset because they have lived their entire lives in Pegasus. Sheppard is an easily replaceable member of the expedition because his time in Pegasus doesn't count for much when compared to Teyla and Ronon and there are better officers who could replace him.


People like Ronan and Teyla canít fly puddle jumpers and F-302ís. Sheppard is the best pilot Atlantis has. Not to mention he is probably the only person who can fly the city and he uses other Ancient tech a lot better than anyone else. Add to this, his previous military experience and his experience in Pegasus, and I certainly wouldnít say Sheppard is easily replaceable.

This post has been edited by JC1: Nov 11th 2007, 12:27 PM
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KillerMarv
post Nov 11th 2007, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Nov 11th 2007, 6:50 PM) *

People like Ronan and Teyla canít fly puddle jumpers and F-302ís. Sheppard is the best pilot Atlantis has. Not to mention heís probably the only person who can fly the city and he uses other Ancient a lot better than anyone else. Add to this, his previous military experience and his experience in Pegasus, and I certainly wouldnít say Sheppard is easily replaceable.


I agree. And to add to this: Sheppard has more experience than any other military officer on Atlantis. He participated in the key moments Atlantis faced over the last years. He knows how to handle such situations much better than other members of the military chain there.

Also, Earth would not entrust Teyla or Ronon with leadership position yet.
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Dafmeister
post Nov 11th 2007, 3:33 PM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Nov 11th 2007, 4:50 PM) *
People like Ronan and Teyla canít fly puddle jumpers and F-302ís.
So. What does that have to do with anything?


QUOTE
Sheppard is the best pilot Atlantis has. Not to mention he is probably the only person who can fly the city and he uses other Ancient tech a lot better than anyone else.
Anyone who has the gene can pilot the city and there are going to be many better pilots on Earth than Sheppard. On a planet of 6 billion people, the chances that Sheppard is the person who has the strongest gene are slim.

QUOTE
Add to this, his previous military experience and his experience in Pegasus, and I certainly wouldnít say Sheppard is easily replaceable.
As I said, his experience in Pegasus counts for nothing as the natives have more experience than he could ever have.



QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Nov 11th 2007, 5:05 PM) *
I agree. And to add to this: Sheppard has more experience than any other military officer on Atlantis. He participated in the key moments Atlantis faced over the last years. He knows how to handle such situations much better than other members of the military chain there.
Again, that counts for nothing. There are other officers in the SGC who have more command experience than Sheppard and could easily take his place.


QUOTE
Also, Earth would not entrust Teyla or Ronon with leadership position yet.
Who said anything about leadership? As I said, their experiences in Pegasus makes them more valuable than Sheppard.
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KillerMarv
post Nov 11th 2007, 3:43 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Nov 11th 2007, 10:33 PM) *

Again, that counts for nothing. There are other officers in the SGC who have more command experience than Sheppard and could easily take his place.


Right. So, they would change an officer fighting against an enemy for 3-years with a "more experienced" officer who has fought against another enemy for 10 years. The familiarity the first officer has with the man he commands, with their abilities in critical moments and familiarity with the enemy are a colossal advantage. If you saw The Siege Part 3 you would know what bringing a newbie "more experienced" officer to take command really means. dry.gif

QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Nov 11th 2007, 10:33 PM) *

Who said anything about leadership? As I said, their experiences in Pegasus makes them more valuable than Sheppard.


So, Teal'c was probably more valuable than Jack in SG-1's first seasons. Come on, Daf, "experience" only counts as "information". That is "I can't trust them, we keep them for information and that is all. Keep your eyes on them."
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Dafmeister
post Nov 11th 2007, 3:56 PM
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Sheppard had only been on Atlantis for one year at the time of 'The Seige' part 3. The only mistake Everett made was not keeping back some of the mines set in space. His arrival bought the city more time, without him it would have fallen to the Wraitha lmost immediately.

Teal'c was far more valuable than O'Neill because he knew the Goa'uld. Jack knew nothing about how to fight them, the SGC only managed to hold their own because of Teal'c. Hell, without him they would have been killed on their first mission to Chulak.
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JC1
post Nov 11th 2007, 4:05 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Nov 11th 2007, 8:33 PM) *

So. What does that have to do with anything?


What do Ronan and Teyla do that Sheppard can't? Not much. What does Sheppard do that Ronan and Teyla can't. Quite a lot, which makes him more valuable to the expedition.

QUOTE

Anyone who has the gene can pilot the city and there are going to be many better pilots on Earth than Sheppard. On a planet of 6 billion people, the chances that Sheppard is the person who has the strongest gene are slim.


At the moment Sheppard has the strongest gene, and the most experince with Ancient tech. And they can't exactly test 6 billion people for some Ancient gene.

And in the SG universe, Sheppard is the most experienced and most skilled pilot we've seen. On Earth he's flown all sorts of aircraft from attack helicopters to fighter jets. In Pegasus, he's the best jumper pilot and he's pretty good with Wraith Dart as well. I doubt there's many pilots on Earth that could match that match that.
QUOTE

Again, that counts for nothin. There are other officers in the SGC who have more command experience than Sheppard and could easily take his place.
Who said anything about leadership? As I said, their experiences in Pegasus makes them more valuable than Sheppard.

Again the natives can't pilot Wraith Darts, or Ancient warships, jumpers. So I would say Sheppards experience in pegasus at the moment is more important than that of the natives. Plus the military/IOA would prefer to have their own experienced people. And Sheppard is their most experienced and that's not easily replaced.

QUOTE
Sheppard had only been on Atlantis for one year at the time of 'The Seige' part 3. The only mistake Everett made was not keeping back some of the mines set in space.

As Sheppard suggested he do but he chose to ignore.

QUOTE
His arrival bought the city more time, without him it would have fallen to the Wraitha lmost immediately.
They didn't survive the attack because of the single-handed leadership of Everett. The SGC sent Marines, wepaons, naquada generators which is what allowed them to hold out. Everret certainly helped, but there were others involved in Atlantis' survival, none more so than Sheppard. It was Sheppard who came up the idea to get the nuke of the Genii. It was Sheppard who flew the nuke to the hive ship. And it was Sheppard who came up the idea of beaming nukes that forced the Wraith to retreat.

This post has been edited by JC1: Nov 11th 2007, 4:31 PM
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JTMAG1
post Nov 11th 2007, 6:19 PM
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I don't think that a comparison in the way Sheppard went against Weir to a possible confrontation with Carter is really a possibility. Shep was able to get people under he command to do what he said, as the highest ranking military officer. He couldn't do that with Carter, because his subordinates are hers and they all know the chain of command.
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Invisible Painting
post Nov 11th 2007, 6:24 PM
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It's true Sheppard was chosen to go along on the expedition because of how well he could handle the ancient technology. Earth knew no one who could do it better (you could argue Jack, but he was usually under the influence when he did the cool stuff and he's a general anyway) so even if they found someone else on Earth who could use the chair excellently Sheppards 3 year experience now would put him above them.
But he's been there from the start, knows everything, is in close contact to pretty much all the top members of the expedition (Inc Carter before she went there), has prooved himself worthy in and out of the field. Has made good calls, saved the expedition numerous times. I doubt you could find anyone who could do everything he could, including flying wraith craft and Jumpers, Adrift prooved how many people actually on Atlantis they have who are decent Jumper fliers, even if some were on the Apollo.

As for Teyla and Ronan's expertise of the Wraith, the expedition and Sheppard pretty much know everything they did now plus more because they have a better understanding of the Wraith technology.
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IndyJan
post Nov 12th 2007, 2:45 AM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Nov 11th 2007, 4:05 PM) *

And in the SG universe, Sheppard is the most experienced and most skilled pilot we've seen. On Earth he's flown all sorts of aircraft from attack helicopters to fighter jets. In Pegasus, he's the best jumper pilot and he's pretty good with Wraith Dart as well. I doubt there's many pilots on Earth that could match that match that.



I really don't think you can say that because of Cam. He flew over Antarctica and helped to save SG1. They said he could also fly just about anything. He may not have flown the Wraith Darts yet, but he can fly. As far as the jumper pilot for Shep, he has the gene and it's strong so he should be able to fly that one. We saw though
» Click to Show Spoiler «
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JTMAG1
post Nov 12th 2007, 3:21 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Nov 12th 2007, 2:45 AM) *

I really don't think you can say that because of Cam. He flew over Antarctica and helped to save SG1. They said he could also fly just about anything. He may not have flown the Wraith Darts yet, but he can fly. As far as the jumper pilot for Shep, he has the gene and it's strong so he should be able to fly that one. We saw though
» Click to Show Spoiler «


Lets not forget he flew a 304 and scooped up Carter.
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Revan
post Nov 12th 2007, 3:21 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Nov 12th 2007, 3:21 AM) *

Lets not forget he flew a 304 and scooped up Carter.

So he has skill... who cares? whistling.gif
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JC1
post Nov 12th 2007, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Nov 12th 2007, 7:45 AM) *

I really don't think you can say that because of Cam. He flew over Antarctica and helped to save SG1. They said he could also fly just about anything. He may not have flown the Wraith Darts yet, but he can fly. As far as the jumper pilot for Shep, he has the gene and it's strong so he should be able to fly that one. We saw though
» Click to Show Spoiler «


We've only seen Cam fly an F-16 and an F-302. When have they ever said Cam can fly anything or when have we seen him fly anything else? We know Sheppard has flown F-16's and F-302's as well, and a wide range of helicopters and a V-22 Osprey.

And to be fair, Mitchell did got shot down over Antarctica, and he lost his wingman and he lost his co-pilot. In fact anytime we've seen Mitchell in a cockpit bad things seem to happen. He bombed a refugee convoy in an F-16 and the Prometheus was destroyed while he was attacking the Ori satelite in an F-302. I'm not saying these things were his fault, but it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Mitchell himself seem's to doubt his pilot skills. He beleived his friend was much better pilot than he was and would have taken the spot in the F-302 program had he not been injured saving Mitchell from his own hotheaded move.

Sheppard seems far more self assured and believes he can fly anything. I'm not saying Mitchell is a bad pilot, but what we've seen on both shows I'd say Sheppared is the more skilled and more experienced pilot.

This post has been edited by JC1: Nov 12th 2007, 11:39 AM
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Wisdonplusone
post Apr 5th 2008, 4:04 PM
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Jewel Straite is an experienced actress - have you forgotten that she was on Firefly - a really excellent series that I really miss.

Shepherd will do whatever it takes to get the job done to his satisfaction - he is a man of honor and is committed to his people on Atlantis and if he has to take on Col. Carter he will and yet...they share too much of the same type of history - life and death decisions that potentially affect both themselves but also the entire planet/universe plus his military training that I think the situation won't arise as often as it would have with Weir. Frankly I think he liked Weir well enough but he has respect for Sam and that make a big difference.

I would like to see more of differences in customs/cultures between the resident Atlantas aliens and the earthers: their views on what we consider important and they view as foolish is priceless.

As the Wraith had not been culling in several generations I find the fear of them to be a bit much - we have had major earthquakes on the west coast and yet way too many people live in the Bay area. Are we to believe that they are smarter then us? And yes "you would be hard pressed to find a family who has not been touched by the wraith" we all know people who have been in car wrecks and yet we tend to be drivers.

I for one have never seen the lure of clowns or circuses for that matter. Yet I do think that bad Shepherd should have had a goatee in their Shepherd vs. Shepherd fight - beautifully shot by the way. I so understood Rhonen's fears - Jason did a super job conveying his fear. Teyla's was pretty standard, but Rodney's was lol.
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