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> What about the loo?, fictional bodily functions
Revan
post Feb 27th 2007, 11:05 AM
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It occurs to me that everybody has to eat and go potty.

In fiction, you would have people eating together if you wanted a group to discuss something. You would have somebody eating alone if you wanted to project solitude...

So, when do these fictional characters pee? Do they get to go to the bathroom... I just wrote a part where my heroes are stranded for 20 or so hours on a planet, alone. They have nourishment... so... do they get to go to the bathroom? And I don't mean one goes pee off somewhere and a badguy creeps up on somebody... no, I mean... do they get to just go regular pee... when nothing interesting happens to them?!!? huh.gif

I don't ever remembering somebody going to the powder room in Star Trek...
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Parmenides
post Feb 27th 2007, 11:51 AM
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If I recall correctly, it's a bit of a running joke with Star Trek that toilets are rarely seen or used - on some ship schematic, toilets were marked on somewhere as a joke once, I think.

It's like in 24 - no one ever goes to the toilet, and across all six seasons I think we've seen a total of about three sandwiches being eaten. biggrin.gif
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JTMAG1
post Feb 27th 2007, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Feb 27th 2007, 11:51 AM) *

If I recall correctly, it's a bit of a running joke with Star Trek that toilets are rarely seen or used - on some ship schematic, toilets were marked on somewhere as a joke once, I think.

It's like in 24 - no one ever goes to the toilet, and across all six seasons I think we've seen a total of about three sandwiches being eaten. biggrin.gif

24 is kinda different, because the entire season takes place in one day. I think they expect you to hold it while trying to stop the impending doom.

This week's 24 ep.
» Click to Show Spoiler «
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Parmenides
post Feb 27th 2007, 1:09 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Feb 27th 2007, 5:27 PM) *

24 is kinda different, because the entire season takes place in one day. I think they expect you to hold it while trying to stop the impending doom.

Did that really need to be in spoilers? 1.gif

It's even more glaringly absent in 24 because it's real time. I suppose they just eat/wee/poo in the four or so "missing" minutes for each commercial break. whistling.gif

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JTMAG1
post Feb 27th 2007, 1:52 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Feb 27th 2007, 1:09 PM) *

Did that really need to be in spoilers? 1.gif

It's even more glaringly absent in 24 because it's real time. I suppose they just eat/wee/poo in the four or so "missing" minutes for each commercial break. whistling.gif

Well, it didn't need to be in spoilers persay, but I hate spoilers, other people do too, and not every has the same idea of what a spoiler is. It's easier to be safe and not spoil somewhere, then be a jerk...
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wonderland
post Feb 27th 2007, 4:53 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 27th 2007, 11:05 AM) *

It occurs to me that everybody has to eat and go potty.

In fiction, you would have people eating together if you wanted a group to discuss something. You would have somebody eating alone if you wanted to project solitude...

So, when do these fictional characters pee? Do they get to go to the bathroom... I just wrote a part where my heroes are stranded for 20 or so hours on a planet, alone. They have nourishment... so... do they get to go to the bathroom? And I don't mean one goes pee off somewhere and a badguy creeps up on somebody... no, I mean... do they get to just go regular pee... when nothing interesting happens to them?!!? huh.gif

I don't ever remembering somebody going to the powder room in Star Trek...

I don't question the fictional as much as I do the real life. When I see a story about someone being stranded for days on end, I always think, 'where did they go to the bathroom?' Kind of goofy, I know.
I did a Red Cross Disaster workshop and that was actually one of the things they talked about, how to designate a 'facility', taking plenty of toilet paper and heavy duty garbage bags that can be sealed. sick.gif
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Revan
post Feb 27th 2007, 6:02 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Feb 27th 2007, 1:52 PM) *

Well, it didn't need to be in spoilers persay, but I hate spoilers, other people do too, and not every has the same idea of what a spoiler is. It's easier to be safe and not spoil somewhere, then be a jerk...

"per se" => Of, in, or by itself or oneself; intrinsically biggrin.gif

I have seen bridge schematics which included one or two heads. I distinctly remember the akira bridge, there was a head off of the Captain's ready room, and one for everybody else. It doesn't need to be huge, because of small duty shifts... In DS9 Cassidy Yates pukes in the toilet at one point.

QUOTE(wonderland @ Feb 27th 2007, 4:53 PM) *

I don't question the fictional as much as I do the real life. When I see a story about someone being stranded for days on end, I always think, 'where did they go to the bathroom?' Kind of goofy, I know.
I did a Red Cross Disaster workshop and that was actually one of the things they talked about, how to designate a 'facility', taking plenty of toilet paper and heavy duty garbage bags that can be sealed. sick.gif

True.

I was just thinking about it when I was writing. I detailed the character cleaing himself up after coming back, but I said nothing about "going potty."
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Parmenides
post Feb 27th 2007, 6:09 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 27th 2007, 11:02 PM) *

"per se" => Of, in, or by itself or oneself; intrinsically

ohmy.gif
"per se" => Of, in, or by itself or oneself; intrinsically.

Have we ever seen any toilets in SG-1?
Speaking of Star Trek hygiene, I always found the sonic showers a bit of a laugh. What was wrong with plain old water, especially if it can just be recycled?

(I wonder, are these questions pushing the boundaries of this thread too far? biggrin.gif)

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JTMAG1
post Feb 27th 2007, 6:37 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 27th 2007, 6:02 PM) *

"per se" => Of, in, or by itself or oneself; intrinsically


I knew that I was wrong when i typed it, laziness prevailed. And I got some of my own medicine.

You might notice that I make more mistakes like that during the day. I speculate that this is because I don't want someone to peek over my shoulder and see FTW...

I think it's soo hard to work such a set into the plot and seamlessly, so they leave it out. It's hard to show the bathroom, or locker room without showing nudity. If someone jumps out of the shower and right into their clothes, we would be talking about how the hell they dried themselves so fast.

EDIT:
I also do things like call Janos Revan whistling.gif

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Revan
post Feb 27th 2007, 6:57 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Feb 27th 2007, 6:09 PM) *

Have we ever seen any toilets in SG-1?
Speaking of Star Trek hygiene, I always found the sonic showers a bit of a laugh. What was wrong with plain old water, especially if it can just be recycled?

(I wonder, are these questions pushing the boundaries of this thread too far? biggrin.gif)

We have seen Carter in the shower. We have seen locker rooms... I dunno about toilets.

"sonic shower" sounds high-tech... I used them in tandem in my fic... one stall does both, depends on who is using it. I used the sonic shower to clean off, hot water to relax, then the sonic shower again to dry... laugh.gif

It is my thread, and is still basically related to toilets in fiction, even though you guys spammed it to tears immediately.


QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Feb 27th 2007, 6:37 PM) *

I knew that I was wrong when i typed it, laziness prevailed. And I got some of my own medicine.

You might notice that I make more mistakes like that during the day. I speculate that this is because I don't want someone to peek over my shoulder and see FTW...

I think it's soo hard to work such a set into the plot and seamlessly, so they leave it out. It's hard to show the bathroom, or locker room without showing nudity. If someone jumps out of the shower and right into their clothes, we would be talking about how the hell they dried themselves so fast.

EDIT:
I also do things like call Janos Revan whistling.gif

I forgot to use an emoticon... I was saying it jokingly. whistling.gif


I know I have seen people peeing in shows, and in books... but it is usually during a conversation. I want to just have the character go potty at some random time... like during a briefing.

=> "5 minute break guys, I have to use the head"
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wonderland
post Feb 27th 2007, 7:25 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 27th 2007, 6:57 PM) *

It is my thread, and is still basically related to toilets in fiction, even though you guys spammed it to tears immediately.

=> "5 minute break guys, I have to use the head"

Thank you, kind sir, that's what we're here for. biggrin.gif
And I seem to remember a scene in, I'm not sure, maybe it was "Ascension"? when Jack escapes Carter by saying somewhat desperately, "I have to pee, Carter!"
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Revan
post Feb 27th 2007, 7:44 PM
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QUOTE(wonderland @ Feb 27th 2007, 7:25 PM) *

Thank you, kind sir, that's what we're here for. biggrin.gif

And I seem to remember a scene in, I'm not sure, maybe it was "Ascension"? when Jack escapes Carter by saying somewhat desperately, "I have to pee, Carter!"

Well I did love SPAMALOT... wink.gif

I think I remember that... if there was a commentary track, and the room he went into was actually a broom cupboard...
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wonderland
post Feb 27th 2007, 8:59 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 27th 2007, 7:44 PM) *

Well I did love SPAMALOT... wink.gif

I think I remember that... if there was a commentary track, and the room he went into was actually a broom cupboard...

The door didn't look much like a bathroom door...
Was it "Failsafe" when the guys who engineered the F302 from "Tangent" asked Jack where the bathroom was? And said something about it being very important to him?
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Revan
post Feb 27th 2007, 9:37 PM
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QUOTE(wonderland @ Feb 27th 2007, 8:59 PM) *

The door didn't look much like a bathroom door...

Was it "Failsafe" when the guys who engineered the F302 from "Tangent" asked Jack where the bathroom was? And said something about it being very important to him?

Thats because it looked like a supply closet in the hallway. smile.gif

I have no idea.
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Admiral
post Feb 28th 2007, 12:46 PM
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The Sonic Shower in Star Trek uses sound waves to disintegrate dirt and so on, it's more efficient:
1. Temp. doesn't matter, so no heating water.
2. No need for a large tank of water (especially when space is a premium aboard a starship)
3. No need to carry towels (although they do, why?)

P.S. sorry, i'm a trekkie smile.gif

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Revan
post Feb 28th 2007, 1:21 PM
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QUOTE(Admiral @ Feb 28th 2007, 12:46 PM) *

The Sonic Shower in Star Trek uses sound waves to disintegrate dirt and so on, it's more efficient:
1. Temp. doesn't matter, so no heating water.
2. No need for a large tank of water (especially when space is a premium aboard a starship)
3. No need to carry towels (although they do, why?)

P.S. sorry, i'm a trekkie smile.gif

They still have sinks that use water. Gotta wash your hands. smile.gif

Well my character is the Captain, and he wanted a shower that was equipped for both sonic resonance and hot water. If you want to be efficient with water, just get wet, turn the water off, lather yourself up, and then turn the water back on to rinse off.

I wonder how their toilets work... would they use flushing water, or some sort of high-tech disintegration system to recycle any useful nutrients from the excrement and urine...?
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JTMAG1
post Feb 28th 2007, 2:16 PM
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QUOTE(Admiral @ Feb 28th 2007, 12:46 PM) *

The Sonic Shower in Star Trek uses sound waves to disintegrate dirt and so on, it's more efficient:
1. Temp. doesn't matter, so no heating water.
2. No need for a large tank of water (especially when space is a premium aboard a starship)
3. No need to carry towels (although they do, why?)

P.S. sorry, i'm a trekkie smile.gif

Well, space isn't that important when you are replicating...
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Parmenides
post Feb 28th 2007, 3:51 PM
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I wouldn't imagine sound waves would do much against sweat or bacteria though...
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Admiral
post Feb 28th 2007, 4:25 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 28th 2007, 7:21 PM) *

They still have sinks that use water. Gotta wash your hands. smile.gif


Good Point: I'm sure I saw Riker at a sink with water...

QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 28th 2007, 7:21 PM) *

Well my character is the Captain, and he wanted a shower that was equipped for both sonic resonance and hot water. If you want to be efficient with water, just get wet, turn the water off, lather yourself up, and then turn the water back on to rinse off.

I know Archer from Star Trek: Enterprise has a water shower, but i don't think the sonic one had been invented at the time...

QUOTE(Revan @ Feb 28th 2007, 7:21 PM) *

I wonder how their toilets work... would they use flushing water, or some sort of high-tech disintegration system to recycle any useful nutrients from the excrement and urine...?

"some sort of high-tech disintegration system to recycle any useful nutrients from the excrement and urine"
Yes, can't remember the episode of Enterprise but Tucker was annoyed at some little kid from Earth asking something along the lines of this Thread question, to which he replied "A poop question, Sir?"
Archer: "It's a perfectly valid question"
Tucker: "Well... the waste is broken down by a matter resequencer and can be remade as anything... a bulkhead or... a pair of boots..."

Yea, scary

QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Feb 28th 2007, 08:16 PM) *

Well, space isn't that important when you are replicating...

Replicating takes a lot of energy: (E=mc^2) and is rationed

QUOTE(Parmenides @ Feb 28th 2007, 09:51 PM) *

I wouldn't imagine sound waves would do much against sweat or bacteria though...

Think microwave...
Ok that deserves explanation: certain frequencies of sound cause different elements to vibrate, and so heat up, die or evaporate, etc. A sonic shower takes advantage of this.
Destroying anything on the surface of the skin (or hair), e.g. sweat, bacteria, etc.
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Parmenides
post Feb 28th 2007, 4:39 PM
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And not the person which the sweat or bacteria is occupying? 1.gif

Sure, it might kill the bacteria or evaporate the sweat, but it would still leave behind the dead bacteria, or the urea solute from the sweat. The beauty of a water shower is that it actually washes the dirt off you.

A lot of energy is required to produce matter, that's true - but after it's used, the matter is broken down into energy again, and recycled. If I recall correctly, isn't everything recycled on ST ships, so that there is very little waste at all?
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Revan
post Feb 28th 2007, 4:50 PM
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QUOTE(Admiral @ Feb 28th 2007, 4:25 PM) *

Good Point: I'm sure I saw Riker at a sink with water...

I know Archer from Star Trek: Enterprise has a water shower, but i don't think the sonic one had been invented at the time...

Picard washes his face in First Contact. I think he is in his ready room at the time.

Yeah, I though the sonic shower idea was from Voyager... Torres uses one.

QUOTE

"some sort of high-tech disintegration system to recycle any useful nutrients from the excrement and urine"
Yes, can't remember the episode of Enterprise but Tucker was annoyed at some little kid from Earth asking something along the lines of this Thread question, to which he replied "A poop question, Sir?"
Archer: "It's a perfectly valid question"
Tucker: "Well... the waste is broken down by a matter resequencer and can be remade as anything... a bulkhead or... a pair of boots..."

Yea, scary

1st season probably... when they have that video uplink from some school.

So, do the toilets have flushing water? Or do they have a top like the iris in stargate... that opens so you can go, and then closes and disintegrates what you left for it... huh.gif

QUOTE

Think microwave...
Ok that deserves explanation: certain frequencies of sound cause different elements to vibrate, and so heat up, die or evaporate, etc. A sonic shower takes advantage of this.
Destroying anything on the surface of the skin (or hair), e.g. sweat, bacteria, etc.

Yeah... when I described the sonic shower in my fic, it had nothing to do with sound waves... it was just energy... the things don't have enough power to fry a person, but they can take care of dirt, dried blood, etc. I then had him use it to dry himself off... biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Parmenides @ Feb 28th 2007, 4:39 PM) *

Sure, it might kill the bacteria or evaporate the sweat, but it would still leave behind the dead bacteria, or the urea solute from the sweat. The beauty of a water shower is that it actually washes the dirt off you.

A lot of energy is required to produce matter, that's true - but after it's used, the matter is broken down into energy again, and recycled. If I recall correctly, isn't everything recycled on ST ships, so that there is very little waste at all?

Nah, it vaporizes it, and then collects somehow. They have awesome air purification systems you know. Didn't you ever wonder why there was no dust?

Yeah, even like, clothing... it gets recycled back into the system.
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Admiral
post Feb 28th 2007, 4:52 PM
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I think the sound waves carry the remains of anything left behind away.
In a Voyager episode we see B'Elanna Torres in a sonic shower and it seems like dust is leaving her skin in a sort of mini-tornado, leaving clean skin behind.

The matter-energy-matter conversion is not 100% efficient, yes most waste is recycled but it still takes energy.
So since sonic showers are more efficient and much less energy inefficient, it's the prefered method.

P.S. sorry Revan, I was writing my post while you were posting yours but i'm almost certain that a sonic shower uses sound, I remember, I think it was Voyager, the captains shower had broken and was getting louder and louder, it eventually cracked a mirror.

QUOTE

Revan:
"1st season probably... when they have that video uplink from some school.

So, do the toilets have flushing water? Or do they have a top like the iris in stargate... that opens so you can go, and then closes and disintegrates what you left for it... "

Yes that was it, but I haven't seen enough of a Star Trek toilet to tell you the internal workings, sorry sad.gif

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Revan
post Feb 28th 2007, 5:01 PM
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QUOTE(Admiral @ Feb 28th 2007, 4:52 PM) *

I think the sound waves carry the remains of anything left behind away.
In a Voyager episode we see B'Elanna Torres in a sonic shower and it seems like dust is leaving her skin in a sort of mini-tornado, leaving clean skin behind.

P.S. sorry Revan, I was writing my post while you were posting yours but i'm almost certain that a sonic shower uses sound, I remember, I think it was Voyager, the captains shower had broken and was getting louder and louder, it eventually cracked a mirror.

Yes that was it, but I haven't seen enough of a Star Trek toilet to tell you the internal workings, sorry sad.gif

It can't be sound and only sound... because sound can't, as far as I know, carry it away. It could some sort of special harmonic resonance system... but I think it would have to be more subtle than sound usually is.

Besides, it could make loud noises when broken and not fuction exclusively on sound.... sympathetic energy frequencies, or the opposite maybe...? unsure.gif

Nobody has ever seen a Star Trek toilet... smile.gif
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Parmenides
post Feb 28th 2007, 5:04 PM
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My, what fictional properties have been endowed upon the lowly sound wave. laugh.gif You wouldn't be able to vaporise bacteria without high, high temperatures, even if it is a miniscule amount. They might be able to fragment the dirt into small pieces...and blow them off somehow, but it's a bit of a rubbish concept.

(also, I don't see how the dirt could be made to float away at such slow speeds, by sonically-speeded waves.)

They should just use nanites. Bacteria-eating, urea-digesting, dust-gorging nanites. whistling.gif

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