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> 1014 - The Shroud
Rating  5
minimax
post Jan 31st 2007, 8:41 AM
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QUOTE(st3ve @ Jan 30th 2007, 11:36 PM) *

Pretty lame really, we'll just have to wait for the films!!

Anyway why did O'Niell address Landry as "Sir", I thought they were both Brigadier Generals?



I think because o'niel have only one star, and landry 2



wath about kissing betwean adria and jackson

ships was 7 indeed

AND WHERE IS THAT SPELLING CHECKER ( I NEED IT )
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KillerMarv
post Jan 31st 2007, 8:46 AM
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This was a great episode. It answered one question, and opened another big one:

A. Now I can see that Daniel didn't have Merlin's thoughts, he had Merlin's consciousness in his head. Although this wasn't a big problem, it did help his plan go better.

B. Were the Ori really destroyed? I thought for sure that TPTB will set a little clue to us towards the end of the episode, but now all is unknown. I'm actually thinking that Adria may have recovered and pulled out the crystal before the device could activate. 1.gif

But yeah, I knew from when they mentioned that this could lead to reinforcements of Ori ships, that ultimately this would happen. Also, it was fun to see Adria finally taken down by something. 1.gif

Oh, and finally an episode with Jack really useful as recurring character. Was a bit confused by his rank star as well... I think he was wearing one of his older uniforms the first time. We already know that he is a Major General from his previous appearances in both shows.
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minimax
post Jan 31st 2007, 8:50 AM
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QUOTE(Sibylle @ Jan 31st 2007, 3:10 PM) *

I wonder what's going to happen next. The battle would be very easy won with two ZMP's....

Some drones from atlantis, use them to get to the sensitive parts of the ship (controls etc.) the only thing stopping them could be a Prior, but with the element of suprise it should be possible to take out a few.
A ZMP also gives the ships massive shields, enough to withstand (correct?) major firepower....

And let's not forget, there is still an Ori ship floating in front of the gate, without a Prior to fly it. So we could steal there energy source, weapons, shields, rings etc. We could even make a control interface.
I would like to see earth's ships equiped with the Ori weapons though smile.gif

(should be possible with reverse enginering, they did work with much more complicated things) I would've also liked some interference from the Asgard, a ship that is watching the supergate or so, or some help (let's not forget we are talking about everybody's enemy).




BEST POST I READED
IF ONLY I COULD WRITE LIKE THAT

CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHEN IS COMMING NEXT EPISODE

and what was that device that was ment to beam daniel in space. i wacht it twice but without subs.
it preventing daniel to do wath?
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Parmenides
post Jan 31st 2007, 9:35 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:46 PM) *

B. Were the Ori really destroyed? I thought for sure that TPTB will set a little clue to us towards the end of the episode, but now all is unknown. I'm actually thinking that Adria may have recovered and pulled out the crystal before the device could activate. 1.gif

More reasons why the plan was rubbish: if it didn't succeed in killing the Ori, it's now in their possession, and they can just send it straight back through to wipe out the Ancients! And seriously, what's up with the higher dimensional beings being located in a fixed place, the MW? Surely they can peruse the entire universe at their discretion...methinks I need to do some ranting in the Sangral topic. biggrin.gif
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Cypher
post Jan 31st 2007, 9:39 AM
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O'Neill - Daniel moments are priceless. Miss the good ol' days. Good episode, but I don't think the Ori have been destroyed that easily.
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Pitry
post Jan 31st 2007, 10:44 AM
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WTF....?
Okay. I thought RCC has learned his lesson after Fallen and Moebius 2... but I guess I was wrong. Note for...erm, future Atlantis episodes. When you have a two episodes' worth of a story, you make a two-parter, not cram it all up in one and hope for the best. Shroud was not as much rushed as it lacked pacing altogether.

That being said, very good episode, and compeltely and utterly not what I expected.

So, remaining with my initial WTF. They expected a seaosn 11 and they killed off - or possibly killed off - the Orii now?! I mean.... what?!
I'm partial where this can go now. Because on the one hand, it can do good - fighting invisible, all powerful forces is great for the imagination but will always end in an anti climax. ow they can dedicate more time to the Orii armies - and hopefully use what they started to establish in Crusade and Line in the Sand, turn this into a problem of persuasion rather than a rela war. On the second hand... I dunno. In Reckoning, the initial idea of the Goa'uld losing through the Jaffa's lack of belief went rather unnoticed with so many system lords being killed previously by SG1 or during Reckoning by the replicators. I kinda hoped the Orii's demise would be more of a kill-off true to Stargate's spirit - more on the line of the Orii losing their power when their followers abandoning them, but emphasised, rather than washed over. And it's also a shame because I love the idea of an undefeatable enemy. Ah, well, we knew they had to go in the end.

Biggest petpeeve witht he episode: the Daniel/ Adria scene. Dear god, they so didn't have to go there. I really hoped they won't go there. Can we get even more cliche?...
Sigh.
Not to emntino that sorry, I officially don't like MB as Adria. I don't think she has a good grasp or even understands the point of her character.

Second biggest pet peeve, and anotehr angle this episode dind't go the way I expected.... I was hoping for more emotional substance. I was hoping for Daniel's "goodness" not to be so clear cut and obvious, but to have real emotional conflict and real emotional fallout. The Shroud fell short on both. Especially the emotional fallout. Hecvk, all fallout from the epsiode character wise rather than plot wise... a shame, because the very story did have so much potential on that respect. Also feel somewhat cheated witht he whole "Merlin's inside Daniel's head" part. I mean, speaking of silly plot devices. I mean, come on. This hasn't reached the stupidity level of Sunday... but it's close. Which is a shame because Stargate is usually much stronger than that on plot devices.

Okay. Nuff with that.
Jack! Daniel! Jack and Daniel! God, I missed these two. I knew I'm gonna miss their interactions when RDA left, hell, in a lot fo ways I've been missing their itneractions since Meridian, Abyss and Full Circle... but seeing these two together on their best of terms just shwos how much. They drive each other crazy, and they did it so wonderfully in this episode. I think it's in the Abyss commentary where Martin Wood and Chris Judge say that every actor has a specific other actor that gets the ebst out of him, and that RDA and MS are like that together - and yeah, they proved it, once again.
I loved all team interaction in this. Sam's stressing how they have to try because it's Daniel, the team's reaction when Woolsey told them they've decided to kill Daniel, Teal'c's "half interrogation" of Daniel... a shame there was no follow up between Cameron and Daniel or Cameron and Jack about the part where they left Daniel behind, but.... And I really enjoyed the bit between Daniel and Vala, his expecting her to trust him because he trusted her and her telling him she can't... that was a nice touch.
And Jack.
Priceless.
And I'm really happy they brought up Abyss. Really, really happy. It should have been brought up. I must wonder tho, did Jack tell Daniel, did Adria, or does this mean he got back his memories from his ascended period?
Anotehr interesting bit was Daniel and Woosley. Nope, doesn't seem like Daniel likes him too much. smile.gif I know they were trying to add more suspence on the is he/ isn't he angle at that point - and I admit I did wonder - but it was still very entertaining.

Oh, yeah. Another great moment. "What took you guys so long?!" ;)

And ooh! the Orii may be defeated, but now there are what, ten Orii ships on Milky Way's collective arses?
I hope tjey turn not to the "how do we defeat them by weapons" angle but rather to the "how do we defeat them by words" bit.
Also, now apparently there will be no reason at all for the Ancients to interfere - no Orii. A shame. I kind of enjoyed that layer of the story - would the Ancients interfere in time, would they suffer the same fate of the galaxy... I think - and this migth be the biggest anti climax of it all - they did take something away from the story by eliminating the danger to the Ancients. Because it takes out the risk in the long run to the big picture. Even if the Orii armies manage to win this fight, even if everyone's under their rule, the ORii are not the ones anymore that call the shots. There wuold be a chance of rebellion; there would be a chance of, much like witht he Goa'uld, at some point in the future brnig in their downfall. When the Orii were around, there was always hat extra layer of if the Orii do win, it would be the end of hope and free will and everything, actually. Which is one of the things that made the Orii so great. They've actually lowered the stakes, in the middle of the story. And that's a shame.
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Dafmeister
post Jan 31st 2007, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE(Sibylle @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:10 PM) *
I wonder what's going to happen next. The battle would be very easy won with two ZMP's....
Read the spoilers for the upcoming episodes andmovies and you'll know.


QUOTE
Some drones from atlantis, use them to get to the sensitive parts of the ship (controls etc.) the only thing stopping them could be a Prior, but with the element of suprise it should be possible to take out a few.
We don't know how effective drones are against Ori shields.


QUOTE
A ZMP also gives the ships massive shields, enough to withstand (correct?) major firepower....
We've never seen ZPM enhanced shields take a direct hit from an Ori ship so we don't know how long they would last.


QUOTE
And let's not forget, there is still an Ori ship floating in front of the gate, without a Prior to fly it. So we could steal there energy source, weapons, shields, rings etc. We could even make a control interface.
I would like to see earth's ships equiped with the Ori weapons though smile.gif
No there isn't. Watch the very end of the episode again and you'll see there is no Ori ship left in front of the Supergate.


QUOTE(minimax @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:41 PM) *
I think because o'niel have only one star, and landry 2
No, both are Major Generals i.e. two star Generals.


QUOTE(minimax @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:50 PM) *
CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHEN IS COMMING NEXT EPISODE
It depends on where you are watching the show from. Check the Broadcast Information forum.


QUOTE
and what was that device that was ment to beam daniel in space. i wacht it twice but without subs.
it preventing daniel to do wath?
The device in the room was an anti-Prior device. It is designed to block all the powers Prior has but over time a Prior can over the device, as Daniel did.
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Parmenides
post Jan 31st 2007, 11:41 AM
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Pitry is clearly assuming the Sangral worked. 1.gif

(I remain more skeptical on the matter... biggrin.gif)
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Pitry
post Jan 31st 2007, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Jan 31st 2007, 6:41 PM) *

Pitry is clearly assuming the Sangral worked. 1.gif

(I remain more skeptical on the matter... biggrin.gif)


It doesn't matter, unless they're going to brign back the Orii in a future show, which I doubt.
Having just said "we potentially killed the Orii" automatically drops from the danger value. This is going to change their fopcus no how things are done, this is going to alter their perception on this fight.
I loved how season 10 was "we're hopeless" theme. It was a very, very refreshing change - not just for Stargate, but to have that theme plus those special comedy traits Stargate has has made it, for me at least, fersh and unique and [prlly one of the best "doom and gloom" attitudes I've seen in sciecne fiction.
The minute the possiblity arrives that the Orii are gone, well, so did that theme for me.
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Parmenides
post Jan 31st 2007, 12:55 PM
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I think we'll hear word of whether or not it's worked before the end of the season. I agree though, if it's worked, all the drama they've been creating over the past few seasons will just vanish.
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Revan
post Jan 31st 2007, 12:55 PM
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Great episode.

Adria's comment and Daniel's reaction about Vala's affection was priceless. "Affec-whaa?"

The Odyssey was parked there for a long time, so maybe Adria didn't get to the device after all because she was unconscious. It is possible that is the reason it took longer for the ships to come back through the gate.

We got to see more of Vala being a sincere person, that was nice. I am still hoping for a fairytale ending between her and Daniel. smile.gif
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Natoma
post Jan 31st 2007, 12:59 PM
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Pitry,

If Season 11 were still in play, they would have gone the route of "The Ori/Adria stopped the weapon from firing when it got into their galaxy. Now they've got the means to destroy the Ancients and will use it, forcing an all out war between the Ancients and Ori. SG-1 has to stop Adria while the Ancients are 'distracted' by the Ori." And so forth and so on.

Without Season 11, I believe this was the destruction of the Ori, and what I pointed out in the spoiler tag on the prior page will come to fruition instead.

QUOTE
» Click to Show Spoiler «


I think an 11th season would've been able to explore that angle of the Ancient/Ori war in a great way, but then we've been cheated by Sci-Fi, so there's no hope of that happening now. Given what this episode showed, I think the writers were very smart to write it in the manner they did. Both possibilities are plausible given the storylines we've received.

This post has been edited by Natoma: Jan 31st 2007, 1:03 PM
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Revan
post Jan 31st 2007, 1:07 PM
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I liked Carter at the end... "How did Daniel cloak the ship?" *Daniel shrugs*... biggrin.gif laugh.gif

And now we know for sure that the Odyssey has one of the ZPM's. Poor Woolsey, he looked so confused and scared when he got beamed into the briefing room. And Jack, "I thought we stopped that from happening." I guess he was confused about the difference between locator beacons and highly advanced sensor systems.
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Dafmeister
post Jan 31st 2007, 1:17 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 31st 2007, 6:07 PM) *
And Jack, "I thought we stopped that from happening." I guess he was confused about the difference between locator beacons and highly advanced sensor systems.
There was a dampening field around the SGC since the Stargate was stolen by The Trust. Sam refers to it in 'Insiders' when she says the Ba'al clones have a locator beacon can't escape but were able to when they all stood close to each other.
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Natoma
post Jan 31st 2007, 1:22 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:07 PM) *

I liked Carter at the end... "How did Daniel cloak the ship?" *Daniel shrugs*... biggrin.gif laugh.gif

And now we know for sure that the Odyssey has one of the ZPM's. Poor Woolsey, he looked so confused and scared when he got beamed into the briefing room. And Jack, "I thought we stopped that from happening." I guess he was confused about the difference between locator beacons and highly advanced sensor systems.


» Click to Show Spoiler «
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Revan
post Jan 31st 2007, 1:37 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 31st 2007, 1:17 PM) *

There was a dampening field around the SGC since the Stargate was stolen by The Trust. Sam refers to it in 'Insiders' when she says the Ba'al clones have a locator beacon can't escape but were able to when they all stood close to each other.

That is because Al'Kesh do not have advanced asgard transporter sensors.

I thought Adria was much better in this episode.

As I have said before, Morena is a great actor, I get the feeling they want her to play Adria that way. But in this episode, she seemed to be more fluid.
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Pitry
post Jan 31st 2007, 1:55 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 31st 2007, 7:55 PM) *

Great episode.

Adria's comment and Daniel's reaction about Vala's affection was priceless. "Affec-whaa?"



So that's what he said! haha, I kind of missed that, and thuoght it was MS speakign his usual fast self...

QUOTE(Natoma @ Jan 31st 2007, 7:59 PM) *

Pitry,

If Season 11 were still in play, they would have gone the route of "The Ori/Adria stopped the weapon from firing when it got into their galaxy. Now they've got the means to destroy the Ancients and will use it, forcing an all out war between the Ancients and Ori. SG-1 has to stop Adria while the Ancients are 'distracted' by the Ori." And so forth and so on.

Without Season 11, I believe this was the destruction of the Ori, and what I pointed out in the spoiler tag on the prior page will come to fruition instead.
I think an 11th season would've been able to explore that angle of the Ancient/Ori war in a great way, but then we've been cheated by Sci-Fi, so there's no hope of that happening now. Given what this episode showed, I think the writers were very smart to write it in the manner they did. Both possibilities are plausible given the storylines we've received.


Mmmm... going the route of "Adria managed to stop them in the nick of time" would have been somewhat of an Apophis redux, tho. One thing Stargate has got to learn is to stop killing and re-killing its bad guys. Just like Apophis has become a joke... so would any enemy that's being killed over and over.

But even then... I know it;s hard to deal both witht he Orii and their armies. they've set up such an impossibly strong enemy that you can't deal with all of its aspects at the same time. And yes, I expected some sort of a deus ex machina to solve it all. But it just feels defanged now. I think even if we would have found out the Orii still exist.... still something in the story was lost.

I wish we could have seen that depth, the Orii-Ancient all out war, something on that.... I agree we've been cheated by SciFi. Sob. sad.gif

(hehe)
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post Jan 31st 2007, 2:02 PM
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Why didn't they kill Adria when she was unconcious? I would shot her in the head several times... now she is probably alive because the weapon only killed ascended beings. I liked the ep. but i hoped to see Daniel use more of those super-funcky prior powers. I think the ori are still alive, at least some of them, but we'll see
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post Jan 31st 2007, 3:07 PM
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I also noticed O'Neill missing a star during the scene with Daniel. His uniform before and after that scene had two stars!! Eh?!?!

Im like half way through the episode. I had to see if anyone else caught that little bug.

My reaction when I saw the Prior Daniel....AHHHH!!!!
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post Jan 31st 2007, 3:12 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Jan 30th 2007, 4:07 PM) *

The flashbacks were interesting, seeing how Daniel's relationship with Adria develop. It was smart of him/Merlin to use the anti-prior device to disable her personal shield.


I'm pretty sure he only used the device to block her power - he said something to the effect of it took a lot of his own power to get past her personal shield, and he wouldn't have been able to do it if she had her power to back it up as well.

As far as there being no Ori anymore.. well I believe the weapon worked, which would mean no more new Priors.... However just a guess here but maybe as soon as the weapon went off killing the Ori, Adria ascended herself? And from there perhaps she could have ascended some of the Priors?

They really shouldn't have let her go. Of course it's possible Daniel killed her but I doubt it.
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Dafmeister
post Jan 31st 2007, 4:11 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 31st 2007, 6:37 PM) *
That is because Al'Kesh do not have advanced asgard transporter sensors.
There was still a dampening field around the SGC though, hence why Jack said he thought they put a stop to transporting like that.
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Revan
post Jan 31st 2007, 5:00 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 31st 2007, 4:11 PM) *

There was still a dampening field around the SGC though, hence why Jack said he thought they put a stop to transporting like that.

It was an interference field that scrambled the beacon's transmissions... Sensors were not dampened. Transporting wasn't stopped... site triangulation through use of transmitters was stopped.
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Sibylle
post Jan 31st 2007, 5:23 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 31st 2007, 5:02 PM) *

We don't know how effective drones are against Ori shields.

In 10x13 we know the ancient chair was used to fight the Ori off, I geuss it means the attacked it with drones (what else to do with the chair when in batlle?) And if the drones were uneffective they wouldn't have stopped the Ori.
The ZPM was nearly depleted though, I don't know weither that was from the managing of the drones and making them work, of that it was from another weapon (wich we could use).


QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 31st 2007, 5:02 PM) *

We've never seen ZPM enhanced shields take a direct hit from an Ori ship so we don't know how long they would last.

We've seen the shields on earths ships withstand an direct Ori hit. I can't remember precise but the shield lasted 1 shot, or it lasted at least some time (longer then Jaffa shields). So that suggests it could be effective to enhance the shields (except if the Ori weapons works arround it, like the sattelite weapon seemed to do).

QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jan 31st 2007, 5:02 PM) *

No there isn't. Watch the very end of the episode again and you'll see there is no Ori ship left in front of the Supergate.

That's true, it left just at the end....pitty.
But we have atlantis smile.gif
It rulez, we should use it to make weapons and shields. In the upcomming SGA final i think it shouldn't be impossible to get some more ZPM's from the enemy, that would help with all (chair mainly, and cloaking half the galaxy).


Btw, to check weither the Ori ar destroyed we could dial the supergate and go find out with a cloaked jumper or something. It'll be very usefull for intel.
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post Jan 31st 2007, 5:26 PM
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QUOTE(juks89 @ Jan 31st 2007, 2:02 PM) *

Why didn't they kill Adria when she was unconcious? I would shot her in the head several times... now she is probably alive because the weapon only killed ascended beings..


Completely agree. It have taken 2 shots, and half a second to do. While for plot purposes they want her alive, there was no good reason whatsoever to let her live.
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