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JTMAG1
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:26 AM
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biggrin.gif Me switch teams? I was in the middle of editing my post to say, "Me and Auntie were right and Daf was wrong!" and I refresh to see you hanging me out to dry. 1.gif I say everyone agrees to follow Cam's orders, but no one has to. They are just letting him have his reward, but they all know that they have decades more experiance than him.
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Auntie Em!
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:30 AM
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Me switch sides never. I stand by what I believe unless proven wrong. Than I have no trouble admitting when I am wrong. However, I am not wrong about Cam he is not incharge. It seems that both Carter and him take lead as the situation dictates. 1.gif Take that and smoke it Daf. biggrin.gif
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Janos
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:32 AM
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Ok, since everyone is apparently passing a big doobie around, can someone explain to me exactly what you mean by being "in command"

I mean that if Cam gives an order, the others are going to follow it. In any military group, someone has to be in charge. Even if two people have the same rank, one person is in charge, one person is second in commmand, etc, etc.

If SG-1 is under fire, Cam is the one that will tell Teal'C and Carter to hold covering fire, and Daniel and Vala to open the gate, and they'll do it. He is the one in charge, he is in charge of the team, he is in command.

Yeah, they each have a niche to fill, but the Commanding Officer of SG-1 is Cameron Mitchell.

It doesn't matter if they all have different things to do at the SGC, when they're out on missions, there's no question who the boss is and whose orders they're going to follow.

And BTW, he does have plenty of military experience.
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Auntie Em!
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:36 AM
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Well by your very example I guess Carter was in charge of that first planet they went to because she told who to go where! 1.gif
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Revan
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:41 AM
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QUOTE(Auntie Em! @ Aug 5th 2006, 2:36 AM) *

Well by your very example I guess Carter was in charge of that first planet they went to because she told who to go where! 1.gif

It is my belief that they share responsibility. Each is in command in their own way when the situation dictates the necessity for one or the other's particular skills. Cam was originally put in command, but that was before the Ori threat... that was when everybody was gone, and he had to pick a whole new team.
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JTMAG1
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:46 AM
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QUOTE(Auntie Em! @ Aug 5th 2006, 1:36 AM) *

Well by your very example I guess Carter was in charge of that first planet they went to because she told who to go where! 1.gif


That's exaclty right.

QUOTE


And BTW, he does have plenty of military experience.


He does have plenty of military experience, but how long has be been stepping through a wormhole to deal with Alien races? a year now? Sam and Daniel have 10 years, Teal'c has a liftime and maybe more, we have no idea how long Vala has been doing this (I assume she has had a go or two in the sarcofagus). He may be the figurehead of SG-1, but he is far outmatched when it comes to stargate experience.
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Revan
post Aug 5th 2006, 1:51 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Aug 5th 2006, 2:46 AM) *

He does have plenty of military experience, but how long has be been stepping through a wormhole to deal with Alien races? a year now? Sam and Daniel have 10 years, Teal'c has a liftime and maybe more, we have no idea how long Vala has been doing this (I assume she has had a go or two in the sarcofagus). He may be the figurehead of SG-1, but he is far outmatched when it comes to stargate experience.

Which reminds me of how much I liekd the Ba'al / Vala interaction. I had been wondering if they would know each other... it seemed likely. Now we know that Katesh slaughtered a large number of Ba'al's troops in a battle of some type.
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Auntie Em!
post Aug 5th 2006, 2:32 AM
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My bad I a rewatching the episode and Cam was incharge on the first planet they went to and Carter was incharge on the second planet. So they clearly are sharing it. Which is kinda nice. smile.gif
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KillerMarv
post Aug 5th 2006, 6:38 AM
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I thought the command of SG-1 thing has changed after Beachhead, when Carter returned. This episode rocked... I so much enjoyed Ba'al. I so much seen the end with the Ba'als escaping before it happened. Vala was pretty different without Daniel, not in the center of attention anymore, still I liked the way she handled the situations. Carter was better in this episode, the writers did more for her. biggrin.gif

They showed Jack "getting his head sucked in one of those head-sucking things". I thought there would be more reference to that incident than just mentioning the database they got from there. laugh.gif
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SGC_Will
post Aug 5th 2006, 8:21 AM
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is it me or is carter getting more stupid. for giving away the gate addresses, she would have been court martialled. cam is the leader of sg-1, until he doesn't know whats goin on then carter is. he was bein sort of sarcastic, that they don't have control of everything, always with the unexpected situations - he was joking, i mean jack had a hard time controlling daniel and teal'c when they where focused, and so does cam, except with carter, she does as shes told unless she knows cam is wrong.

i thought it was a decent episode, it could have done been done with a stronger carter, but its done and it was a bit funny.
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CluckChicken
post Aug 5th 2006, 8:22 AM
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Back to Janos's rant about them falling for the same old tricks time and time again. Since this was like the 5 billionth time a member of the SGC was taken captive that knows the access codes to the system why have they not made it standard procedure to scramble that member's access codes once one it is known they have been captured? I'm beginning to think that when Ba'al is around the SGC is required to put on their dumb caps.
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KillerMarv
post Aug 5th 2006, 8:30 AM
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QUOTE(SGC_Will @ Aug 5th 2006, 4:21 PM) *

is it me or is carter getting more stupid. for giving away the gate addresses, she would have been court martialled.


No she wouldn't... Prisoners lives were at stake. She had no idea what Ba'als plan was, as Landry said at the end; she acted only to save the lives of the prisoners.

QUOTE(SGC_Will @ Aug 5th 2006, 4:21 PM) *

cam is the leader of sg-1, until he doesn't know whats goin on then carter is. he was bein sort of sarcastic, that they don't have control of everything, always with the unexpected situations - he was joking, i mean jack had a hard time controlling daniel and teal'c when they where focused, and so does cam, except with carter, she does as shes told unless she knows cam is wrong.


Maybe he was joking to you... he didn't look like joking to me... blink.gif

This post has been edited by KillerMarv: Aug 5th 2006, 8:30 AM
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Jack.go.marry.Sam!
post Aug 5th 2006, 9:39 AM
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i also thought this episode was just ok, nothing more..
i already didnt like the episode with the baal clones in season 9.. but this one was even worse..

and yes they need a female writer for Carter.. what she did was really stupid.. i was waiting for the end when she would say that she didnt give Baal the database but something else..
but not this time..

about agent Barret.. i was waiting for that moment when his eyes would glow but it never came.. though if he was a goauld Carter and Tealc should be able to sense that... unless the writers dismissed that idea which wouldnt really suprise me..
i think it was Baal who brainwashed him.. just like he tried with Tealc when he captured him.. and i think that is why they showed that scene in the 'previously on..'

and about Cam, from the beginning i thought it was a stupid idea for him and Carter to have the same rank..
appereantly the writers didnt think it through..
it woukd have been better if Cameron was only a captain and Carters 2IC..
just like Carter was jacks 2IC all those years..
the rest of the Cameron story would still work.. him being a goof pilot and stuff..

from what i heard it is not forbidden to have 2 military ppl of the same rank in one team, but it is uncommon

they should have put Carter in charge like she was in season 8, it would have been great for her character.. but since there arent any writers there who can write a decent story for a female military character it doesnt matter anyway..

i think when they come to that point where they have to twist and turn a character so far like they did with Carter in this episode (and in previous episodes) in order to get a 'good' story, then they should just drop the story and write something else..

btw. did Alan McCullough write for sg1 before? i don't remember all the names of the writers, but i dont remember seeing that name before

btw. as far as i know Shank's wife is giving birth.. so that is why he was not in that episode..

This post has been edited by Jack.go.marry.Sam!: Aug 5th 2006, 9:41 AM
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DrM007
post Aug 5th 2006, 10:12 AM
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First of all, I liked this episode. God knows it wasn't as good as "Pegasus Project", but it was nice.

Two things bothered me. First - how easy it was for SG-1 to "gather" all the - I just had to say it - balls. Remember that they needed like a whole season to take out single goa'uld, but here they managed it in a few seconds montage ... And the other thing was Sam's "dumbness" or "soft heart" or call it whatever you want. Keep in mind - although she is a hot blonde - she is also a highly decorated Air force officer. She can't be THAT soft. dry.gif
- I loved that nostalgic battle of SG-1 vs. Jaffa guards, takes me back to the good old times of early seasons. w00t.gif
- Siler was in the show!!! That's almost like Jack was here. Well ok, not even close, but since Siler was his stunt double you know what I mean... wink.gif

Now, was it just me or do these "Zat guns" shoot different kind of juice lately? It very well could be me, since I installed new huuuge LCD but I don't remember those guns to shoot laser-like beams. It allways seemed to me like some sort of balls ( whistling.gif ) of lightning ... Ah well.

About the chain of command in SG-1. No doubt that Mitchell is commanding officer. HE is in command of SG-1 since the start of season 9. Period.
Now I'm not sure how US military works, but it seems to me that he is not anyone's direct superior officer. As Sam is the same rank as he is and others... well others are technicaly not even members of US military. He can suggest, ask or even tell them what to do, but he can't boss them around. Teal'c listens to him in the boundaries of previously agreed plan of action. Daniel barely ever listened to Jack, and he had great amount of respect for him. Now if somebody suggests that Vala is following ANYBODY'S rules (even her own) should have his head checked. biggrin.gif Actually this episode, she did take her exit when Mitchell pointed it to her, so she does seem to be improving. laugh.gif

Now off I go to see the Atlantis too!!! king.gif

EDIT: I too think that show needs female (or at least gay writer for Amanda Tapping) smile.gif
and I'm sorry if I used too many emoticons...

EDIT2: Note to my self: Learn to spell the main cast names ...

This post has been edited by DrM007: Aug 5th 2006, 10:20 AM
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David_ofthe_Tar'e
post Aug 5th 2006, 10:38 AM
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So once again we have seen that no matter who's in charge, when you trust a goa'uld you will get screwed. And that is really starting to get boaring. After who knows how many attepts to try and cut a deal with various Goa'uld's the SGC always gets screwed yet they never seem to remember that the next time round. They have seen first hand that the Goa'uld never help the way they say they will and by their own statements claim that the Goa'uld cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with... what the hell compels them to keep trying??

When the episode started and they showed the "previously on SG1" I thought I was watching an old episode for a minute.

I think Sams hair could use a cut its looking a bit to boofy at the moment.

Vala was less than convincing in her attempted seduction of Baal, it was pretty funny none the less. Make you wonder if she is at the SGC to serve her own purpose, which by the way hasn't been made clear unlike when Teal'c joined.

Not a hugh fan of this episode I wasn't looking forward to it as much as I was last week.

As for the whos the leader debate, I guess you can just pull a name out of a hat and call that person the leader. Everything at the moment is cercumstantial.
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post Aug 5th 2006, 10:38 AM
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I'm usually an Avid Support of the good/bad episodes of SG-1.

And while this episode had its moments (like when Cam deems it a contest to see who can collect the most Ba'als, and the whole 'chain of command' sequence), it was mostly repetative and quite frustrating.

THIS IS SG-1 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!

The could have do so many more things to take care of Ba'al. Please, they've done stuff like this in the past. If Jack O'Neill were there, Ba'al would be dead or something. Grr. And Hammond would never let something like that happen. Wow. It's so obvious that this is a new SG-1, despite 8 other seasons, and it's frustrating to get used to when we've kicked Goa'uld ASS in the past.

It got so old so fast.

But, yet, I still enjoyed watching it. Wow. I'm such a loser.

I just feel like this episode isn't living up to the fantastic season, season 10 has been so far.

Okay, I'm done reaming.

I'm still holding on to you SG-1!!! You can prove this episode to be horribly wrong and KICK IT IN THE DUST!!!
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JinxY
post Aug 5th 2006, 10:43 AM
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Of course Mitchell is in command of SG1. And he was being sarcastic when he told gen. Landry he is not in charge of anything so he would let Vala come along. You don't just go tell the general that you don't have control over your team but let's bring more people along dry.gif I'm sure that the issue of him and Sam being the same rank has been solved somehow, the team must have a leader , you dont't just pick straws to see who does it this time. On the other hand, Carter's millitary training is pretty solid plus she is a little bit of a genius and it would be stupid for Cam not to take advice from her. But just because she suggests the right course of action it doesn't mean she is in charge. I specifically remember in the last episode (The Pegasus Project) when McKay suggests to use two bombs instead of one, Carter agrees but in the end it's Mitchell who calls the order.

As for this episode well...I was pretty amazed how easily they were fooled. AGAIN. Will they ever learn blink.gif Carter surprised me too , I thought she would have somethig up her sleeve, that she will give Ba'al something else but ... blink.gif She did the right thing though considering that aparently the clones had no way out. She probably though they would get caught soon anyway.
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JTMAG1
post Aug 5th 2006, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE
ow I'm not sure how US military works, but it seems to me that he is not anyone's direct superior officer.

Usually when to officer's have the same rank, the one with more experience or seniority takes command, unless otherwise advised by their superiors. Mean, Landry could say, Sam is in command of this mission because there is a lot of science involved, and he could say Mitchell is in charge if he felt the mission was going to involve a lot of...hand to hand combat?

» Click for Spoiler «


In SG1, having all these Colonels works out unusually smoothly in the show.

I guess one problem I have with Cam being the commanding officer on SG1, is that it's the second in command on the base. If Landry leaves, everyone should listen to Mithcell? Why, when Carter has the same rank and far more experience? I kinda feel like she's second in command in the SGC, and so she should be first in command on SG1, but they won't work, because she's the scientist. She can't be the scientist and the leader, then she would have two jobs and Cam wouldn't have one, and thats just not gonna work.

I don't think Cam was being sarcastic, everything he was saying was true. I don't think he was complaining, he was just being honest with himself. He's not diluted with his title. And and Daf would say, they said it in the show so it's canon that Mitchell doesn't really control anything.

This post has been edited by JTMAG1: Aug 5th 2006, 11:28 AM
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ancient01
post Aug 5th 2006, 11:28 AM
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I think I have to agree with the concensus here. This was an "ok" episode. It was actually a little better than I was expecting. The storyline did have some gaps, but I thought Cliff Simon did a great job, which swayed me to the side of enjoying the ep. Next week, though... My expectations aren't too high.
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post Aug 5th 2006, 11:33 AM
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what you guys are complaining about carter don;t make any sense...
as far as carter was aware when she gave the addresses was taht the balls have no way off the base.. so it would seem according to her that the baals are playing for hostages in order to be released.. now if thats her take on the situation, then it would be correct for her to give them the data as it would buy time.. as it was mentioned that she slowed down the download somewhat..

i am guessing that she included a bunch of junk into the data just to pad the size out
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JTMAG1
post Aug 5th 2006, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE(David_ofthe_Tar'e @ Aug 5th 2006, 10:38 AM) *

Vala was less than convincing in her attempted seduction of Baal, it was pretty funny none the less. Make you wonder if she is at the SGC to serve her own purpose, which by the way hasn't been made clear unlike when Teal'c joined.


I think Vala made it perfectly clear that she is there to give her full support. She stressed out over passing that test, and she reported that the IOA tried bribe her. That showed that she was going to be completly honest with them, and she was going to give it her all.

Why would Carter sacrifice lives of people on the base when to the best of her knowledge, there would be no way for Ba'al to escape with the info? She even said, "it's just a matter of time before we regain control".

QUOTE
Two things bothered me. First - how easy it was for SG-1 to "gather" all the - I just had to say it - balls. Remember that they needed like a whole season to take out single goa'uld, but here they managed it in a few seconds montage ...

Well, in past seasons, the Goa'uld had vast armies to defend themselves. Now they have just a few Jaffa, not many ships... The balance of power has changed.
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SkyDragon
post Aug 5th 2006, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE(Janos @ Aug 4th 2006, 11:11 PM) *

Is SG-1 ever going to learn from their past experiences?

I just felt like yelling at the TV...

"OK, OK.. Listen up. There's a bad guy here. He wants something that you have. Don't believe anything he says, I'm betting there's a 99.9% chance that whatever he wants you to do is somehow related to him getting the thing that you have that he wants."

DUH?

This has happened in the past more than once. Apophis asked for sanctuary so that Sokar would attack Earth. Replicarter got the code to become immune to the Asgard weapon. Nerous egged on the SGC to create an Ori beachead.

Was anyone really surprised that Ba'al had something else planned? Did no one in the entire facility ever think that maybe, just maybe, it might not be a good idea to have a dozen Goa'uld on base?

*sigh*

Even though the plot had holes big enough to park a Mack Truck in, it was still interesting to see Ba'al again. I think he's one of my favorite bad guys! biggrin.gif

Even though it was hard to hear what they were saying over the sound of my palm smacking against my head every time they did something stupid, it was still fun to watch all the Ba'al clones. I have to say the special effects are quite good, I never once had to pull out my Suspension of Disbelief helmet.

So, I'd give it a solid medium, I don't think they could have pulled it off without Ba'al. It definitely wasn't "good", but moderately enjoyable. I wasn't cringing in disbelief like in Morpheus.


The thing is... things are very desperate right now. SG-1 had checked both planets, and found nothing. Thus, when Baal crash-lands on your doorstep, and says he can give some information on Merlin's weapon, you wouldn't exactly tell him to "**** off" if you don't know what to do next when trying to find Merlin's weapon.

QUOTE(Safe @ Aug 4th 2006, 11:49 PM) *

For a so called scientist, carter isnt that smart. Why the hell did she give the database? You would have thought that preventing baal from getting the weapon would be more important than caving into baals threats. How the He** did General Landry agree with her decision? I was thiking throughout. it all, "no Carter can't be that dumb, she must have put something else on the disk", but she actually gave it to him. McKay is right about her being a dumb blonde. rolleyes.gif


Actually, when she input the code, and downloaded the database, I totally agreed with what she did. She, like I, was probably thinking that SG-1 and everyone else would have eliminated Baal and his clones way before he would've obtained the information and escaped. I mean, they were going to release the gas (Stupid scientist that couldn't do that right) - Yet, it didn't happen accroding to plan. I totally agree with what she did under the circumstances.
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Janos
post Aug 5th 2006, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE(SkyDragon @ Aug 5th 2006, 10:54 AM) *

The thing is... things are very desperate right now. SG-1 had checked both planets, and found nothing. Thus, when Baal crash-lands on your doorstep, and says he can give some information on Merlin's weapon, you wouldn't exactly tell him to "**** off" if you don't know what to do next when trying to find Merlin's weapon.
Actually, when she input the code, and downloaded the database, I totally agreed with what she did. She, like I, was probably thinking that SG-1 and everyone else would have eliminated Baal and his clones way before he would've obtained the information and escaped. I mean, they were going to release the gas (Stupid scientist that couldn't do that right) - Yet, it didn't happen accroding to plan. I totally agree with what she did under the circumstances.

But that just brings up the other point I made. How stupid did she have to be to not figure out Ba'al had an alternate plan. How many times has SG-1 been screwed by their overconfidence in their own superiority? They're almost as bad as the Goa'uld.

This post has been edited by Janos: Aug 5th 2006, 12:41 PM
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Revan
post Aug 5th 2006, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE(SGC_Will @ Aug 5th 2006, 9:21 AM) *

is it me or is carter getting more stupid. for giving away the gate addresses, she would have been court martialled. cam is the leader of sg-1, until he doesn't know whats goin on then carter is. he was bein sort of sarcastic, that they don't have control of everything, always with the unexpected situations - he was joking, i mean jack had a hard time controlling daniel and teal'c when they where focused, and so does cam, except with carter, she does as shes told unless she knows cam is wrong.

I am sarcastic a lot, and I did not pick up on any sarcasm. Rather, they seemed exhausted by their inability to control the people that they are supposed to control.


QUOTE(DrM007 @ Aug 5th 2006, 11:12 AM) *

Now, was it just me or do these "Zat guns" shoot different kind of juice lately? It very well could be me, since I installed new huuuge LCD but I don't remember those guns to shoot laser-like beams. It allways seemed to me like some sort of balls ( whistling.gif ) of lightning ... Ah well.

They have always shot the same 'beam.' It is a center beam on the 0 axis, with what appears to be a y=sin(x) curve beam.


QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Aug 5th 2006, 12:24 PM) *

Usually when to officer's have the same rank, the one with more experience or seniority takes command, unless otherwise advised by their superiors. Mean, Landry could say, Sam is in command of this mission because there is a lot of science involved, and he could say Mitchell is in charge if he felt the mission was going to involve a lot of...hand to hand combat?

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In SG1, having all these Colonels works out unusually smoothly in the show.

I guess one problem I have with Cam being the commanding officer on SG1, is that it's the second in command on the base. If Landry leaves, everyone should listen to Mithcell? Why, when Carter has the same rank and far more experience? I kinda feel like she's second in command in the SGC, and so she should be first in command on SG1, but they won't work, because she's the scientist. She can't be the scientist and the leader, then she would have two jobs and Cam wouldn't have one, and thats just not gonna work.

I don't think Cam was being sarcastic, everything he was saying was true. I don't think he was complaining, he was just being honest with himself. He's not diluted with his title. And and Daf would say, they said it in the show so it's canon that Mitchell doesn't really control anything.

SGA:
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