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> ship sizes
toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 25th 2006, 7:48 PM
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ok, the sizes of the different ships have come up in a few other discussions, so im gonna start a topic where they can be discussed.

heres what ive been able to come up with so far

goa'uld ha'tak vessel: the core has to be about the same width as the pyramids, because they used them as landing platforms (the animators obviously screwed up when they made them, because in the shots the are 3 sided) we have seen one land on a pyramid 3 times: ra's ship landing on the pyramid in the movie, heur'ur's ship landing on the pyramid in season 2, and cronus' mother ship landing on a different one in season 4. since the great pyramid is about 750 feet wide, that would have to be about how wide the core of the ship is. each ship has an external structure that sort of weaves around the core, so all together, the ship would have to be about twice the size of the great pyramid, making it about 1500 feet wide, and probably about 750 feet high

anubis' flagship: this vessel seems to be about 5-10 times the size of a regular ha'tak, so if you go by the 1500 foot size of a ha'tak, his ship would be somewhere between 7500 and 15000 feet wide, and since the height of the ship changes as the ship changes, there is no set height for it.

apophis' flagship: this one appears to be a tad smaller than anubis' flagship, probably only about 5 times the size of the ha'tak class ship, so it would put that ship in at about 7500 feet.

goa'uld cargo ship: now, this ship looks like it is about 15 feet high, 15 feet wide, and about 30 feet long

alkesh: in the other guys, the ship is direcly above the gate, and people. so, if we use about 15 feet for the size of the gate, the ship appears to be about 30 feet tall, and probably about 60-90 feet long.

deathglider: smallest goa'uld ship, most likely about 20 foot wingspan. the wings can be folded however to make it small enough to fit in id say a 10'x10'x10' box

X301, F302: about the same size as a death glider, however the wings do not fold

X303 (prometheus): this ship is about 11 times the length the lenght of a cargo ship, so, that would make the promethius somewhere between 300 and 350 feet long. this would then make the ship between 100 and 150 feet high, and about the same in width when you include the hyperdrive pods extending out the side.

X304 (daedalus, oddessy, korolev):
» Click for Spoiler «
that would make the antenna 72 feet long, the ship is aprox 10 lengths of that antenna, making the ship about 800 feet long (when you include an 11th section of 72 feet to count that original antenna) the ship is about 7 lenghts of the antenna wide, making it about 500 feet wide at the back where the glider bays are, and about 150 feet wide at the front of the ship. i would then estimate that the ship is between 150 and 200 feet high


asgard mothership (pre season 4: ex-baliskner)
: all we can do with these is just guess, because there has never been anything of a set size to compare them to, the only time we get that is when tea'lc is on the outside of the ship in season 3, but i would estimate the ship to be about the same size as a goa'uld ha'tak ship

asgard mothership (season 4 on: ex-o'neill): once again, very hard to compare it to any other objects of known size, the best i can do is compare it to the promethius, and with that as an example, mabye put it somewhere around 2000'X2000'X2000'

puddle jumper: probably somewhere between 8-10 feet wide and about 20 feet long, however, when the drive pods extend, they would add about 3 feet to each side of the craft.

ori mothership: about 3-4 times the width of a goa'uld mothership, about twice as long as they are wide, and about wide as they are tall. so, they would be about 4500-6000 feet wide, 9000-12000 feet long, and 2250-3000 feet tall

ori fighter : these seem to be larger than a death glider, but smaller than an alkesh, id say about 30 feet long

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 25th 2006, 11:12 PM
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 3:52 AM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 26th 2006, 3:48 AM) *

ori mothership: about 3-4 times the width of a goa'uld mothership, about twice as long as they are wide, and about wide as they are tall. so, they would be about 4500-6000 feet wide, 9000-12000 feet long, and 2250-3000 feet tall


How can that be true? The Supergate was only 300-400 meters wide (aprox. 900-1200 feet). The ships came through the Supergate, so they have a maximum of size. The diameter of the Supergate was said in Beachhead, therefor it must be canon.
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 4:31 AM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 26th 2006, 1:48 AM) *

X303 (prometheus): this ship is about 11 times the length the lenght of a cargo ship, so, that would make the promethius somewhere between 300 and 350 feet long. this would then make the ship between 100 and 150 feet high, and about the same in width when you include the hyperdrive pods extending out the side.
Prometheus was 195m (640ft) in length and 80m (262ft) wide at it's widest point.
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Durakken
post Jul 26th 2006, 9:21 AM
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the hatak used against the ori was at like 1/8 the size of the ori vessel <,<
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 1:40 PM
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ok, the fist supergate was estimated to be 300-400 meters wide. keyworld: estimated, they never actually measured it or did scans on it to see if it was actually taht size, remember they were in space, probably hundreds of miles away from it, there is a very good chance she was wrong.

also, that supergate was launched right after the ori discovered that we were living here in this galexy, now, as you know, warships take time to build. they could have still been in the design stage, and didnt want to start building the ships until they were sure they could get them here. when they sent the first gate and it was easily destroyed by us "primative humans", they may have figured that they needed larger ships.

this gate is not built the same way the first super gate was either, the first supergate was built by several dozen individual "ships" that were small enough to fit through the stargate, the pieces on this gate are far too large to fit through the stargate, meaning that they were most likely sent through in pieces and assmebled on the other side.

here are 2 pictures of a supergate block from camelot,:

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s9/920/html/camelot467.html

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s9/920/html/camelot481.html

again, the only size measurement i have to go by is sams height, so, im gonna keep estimating 6 feet tall. when you look at her position in the picture she is in, then look on the picture she is not in, you can locate the area she was standing on, and compare the sizes, you can conservativly estimate that the block would be 60 feet tall, meaning that this supergate is 5-6 times the size of the original one, because the thickest the original supergate blocks could be is 10-12 feet, because we saw them come through the stargate. so, with the new gate measuring anywhere from, if you go by sams estimate, it could range between 1500-2400 meters wide, meaning that the size i put the ships in at would easily fit through

durakken, if you look closely in the episode, when it crashes, the ha'tak is 1/3 and 1/4 as wide as the ori ship, thats what i was refering to when i said that the ori ship was 3-4 times the size, i think you may be refering to the lenght of the ship, which is about twice the width

dafmeister, where did you get the measurments for prometheus, i dont ever remember them mentioning them in an episode?

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 1:41 PM
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 1:59 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 26th 2006, 7:40 PM) *
ok, the fist supergate was estimated to be 300-400 meters wide. keyworld: estimated, they never actually measured it or did scans on it to see if it was actually taht size, remember they were in space, probably hundreds of miles away from it, there is a very good chance she was wrong.
They were close to it in 'Beachhead' and Sam was right next to the Supergate in 'Camelot' so she had a pretty good idea of what the size would be. Even if it was an estimation, she wouldn't have been out by a factor of 10.


QUOTE
dafmeister, where did you get the measurments for prometheus, i dont ever remember them mentioning them in an episode?
A Stargate magazine a while ago.
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 2:05 PM
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im saying the second supergate is 5-6 times larger, because the blocks are about 60 feet thick as opposed to the 10-12 feet thick that the original one was, her estimation could have been accurate for the original one, but, im saying that the second gate is 5-6 times her estimate

now, this magazine, is it published by the producers/writers of stargate, or by someone else?

because acording to wikipedia, it is 256m long, 104m wide, and 71m high, so obviously people are just throwing different sizes around

also, according to wikipedia, the daedalus is 335m long, 192m wide, 68m tall

also, after looking it up on wikipedia, i would like to quote this: This is a Stargate-like device built out of eighty smaller devices. These devices are about four meters wide and ten meters long, the perfect size to fit through the Stargate. The second Supergate appears to be considerably larger than the first - when Lt. Col. Carter beams out to a segment of the second it appears (when compared to her) to be more than 50 metres wide and over a hundred or metres long

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 2:13 PM
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 2:12 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 26th 2006, 8:05 PM) *
now, this magazine, is it published by the producers/writers of stargate, or by someone else?
It's an official magazine if that's what you're asking.


QUOTE
because acording to wikipedia, it is 256m long, 104m wide, and 71m high, so obviously people are just throwing different sizes around
Information on Wiki can be altered by anyone though. The specs given on Wiki also have a superscript saying that citation is needed to verify the lengths.
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 2:16 PM
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ok, if its an official magazine published by them, i woudl consider that to be accurate then, but, doesnt it make sense that the second supergate is much larger than the first one, especially after all the evidence to support it?
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 2:21 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 26th 2006, 8:16 PM) *
doesnt it make sense that the second supergate is much larger than the first one, especially after all the evidence to support it?
It doesn't make that much sense to me. If the Ori wanted to set up a beachhead in the episode 'Beachhead', why would they build a Supergate that was smaller? As we have seen with the Ori ships, they just about fit through the Supergates. If the first Supergate was smaller, what ship would they be using to invade the Milky Way? I mean, would they build one Supergate to allow small ships through to set up a beachhead then go to all the trouble of building a second one that would allow the larger ships (that we saw in 'Camelot') through?
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 2:32 PM
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as i said, they were probably still designing the ships that would come through, when the first gate was easily destroyed, they probably figured they would need larger and more powerfull ships to defeat us

im gonna do some calculations based on the size of the new blocks and get back to you about the size

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 2:43 PM
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Durakken
post Jul 26th 2006, 3:22 PM
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actually the super gate was formed from parts of the planet that was created by part of the energy when the planet was changed to a blackhole the peices were not sent through the gate.
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hobo_joe20
post Jul 26th 2006, 3:47 PM
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QUOTE(Durakken @ Jul 26th 2006, 4:22 PM) *

actually the super gate was formed from parts of the planet that was created by part of the energy when the planet was changed to a blackhole the peices were not sent through the gate.

I'm sorry. Where the hell did you get this information from? I don't remember it from anywhere, and last I checked the pieces of the supergate in Beachhead came through the stargate (clearly seen in a few shots).
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 4:36 PM
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Ok, now, after looking at the 2 different supergates, this is what I have come up with: The first supergate appears to be comprised of 80 individual blocks connected by some sort of energy field. The blocks appear to taper down from the widest in the back to a bit thinner in the front. The front looks to be about 2/3 the width of the back. now, these blocks must compress somehow to be able to fit through the gate, because according to carters estimate of 350 (between 300 and 400) meters, that means that each unit (I?m designating each block and the energy field to its left one unit, making 80 in all) would have to be 14 meters across, 7 meters for the block, 7 meters for the energy field. This would mean that the larger end of the block would need to be about 10 meters (about 33 feet). Judging by the image of the cargo ship wedged in between the two blocks, this is not possible. The blocks are about the width of a cargo ship at the front of the block, slightly wider than the cargo ship in the back of the block, so the most each block could each be is about 5 meters wide at the front, maybe 7 at the back and about 40 feet long. Now, if each block was compressed down to about 3 meters wide, they could fit through the gate. This would make each unit about 10 meters, this would put the first supergate in at about 250 meters (her estimate was atleast close)

Supergate number 2: this gate contains 90 units (90 blocks and 90 gaps) now, using a comparison of carter to a distinct spot on the block, she is half the size of it. Since the other gate was measured in meters, that?s what ill use for this then just convert it at the end to feet. Im gonna use 2 meters for carters height, because that would put her just over 6 feet, which would account for lift of boots, and the about 6 inches of space that goes over her head with the visor and lights on top. So, that would make the thing on the side of the block 4 meters, the block itself is about 10 times as thick as that marks, so that would make the entire thing 40 meters thick at the spot where she is, it would go up to about 44 meters at the end of the block once it widens a little bit more. Now, if the rear of the block is 44 meters, and the front is about 2/3 the width of the rear, that would make the front of the block about 30 meters thick, meaning one unit would be 60 meters. Multiply 60 by 90 (the number of units you have) and divide by pi to get the diameter. When you do this, you get about 1700 meters wide. Convert that to feet and you get about 5600.

Now, as you can see, the second gate is obviously larger than the first one, it is physically impossible for the 2 gates to be the same size. With the second gate measuring in at about 5600 feet (with probably a 1000 foot margin of error) you can easily fit an ori mothership through the gate.

oh, and durraken, the pieces werent coming from the planet, the planet was being colapsed somehow to turn it into a black hole, thats why it kept getting smaller

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 4:39 PM
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:07 PM
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Yes, the two gates can surely be of different sizes... But if that would be true, how would they have built the second gate. They would still have needed to send the blocks through a Stargate. How else would the pieces form the gate, and if they are bigger than a regular Stargate, they wouldn't get through. So, they must be of the same size. The usage of more pieces than the previous version is possible, but again, this was said before, if they used a smaller gate in the first version, what sort of ships were they trying to send then?
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:25 PM
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they could have easily been sent through in pieces, and assemlbed into the huge blocks that formed the stargate

and, i dont know what sort of ships they woudl send through, like i said, maybe they were still in the design phase, it takes time to design and build ships to send on an intergalactic crusade.

i proved mathmaticly that the second gate is about a mile in diameter, now, if you wanted to argue that my math is off by a few hundred feet, or off by maybe a thousand, i can understand that, buy you saying that its off by 4000 feet? i dont see how you can even possibly consider arguing that the gates are the same size after the proof i gave you that they are not. infact, i didnt put this in there, but based on the size of the blocks on the original gate (the idea that maybe the blocks expaneded when they came through was a long shot), if you go by the rear of them being about 12 feet, and the front being about 8 feet, the largest the original gate could have been was is about 400 feet wide, so obvioulsy carter was way off when she estimated the original gate size. now, you cant argue with that, because in beachhead you saw the blocks shoot out of the gate, straight up to space and arrange into the gate, so, you know that they cant be more than 12 feet wide.

the arguement that this gate is only 400 feet, or even 400 meters wide has no evidence to back it up, while my arguement that the second gate is larger has overwhelming evidence to back it up


if you believe that the gate is only 300 meters wide, then you believe the ha'tak is only 100 meters wide

if you believe the ha'tak is only 100 meters wide, taht means that the core of the ship (pyramid part) is only about 50 meters wide, and if you look back to decent, there you can clearly see when the gliders are launched that the glider bay goes probably 25 meters into the pyramid from what you see in the shot, which means that there is no opening in the bottom of the pyramid

also, if you belive the ha'tak is only 100 meters wide, then that means anubis' flagship is only about 3-4 times the size of prometheus, and you can clearly tell from lost city thats not true

if you believe the blocks on the second supergate were only 12 feet thick, then you believe carter is about half a foot tall

if you believe the 2 are the same size, then you believe 90=80, because there were 90 blocks on the second one, 80 blocks on the first

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 7:28 PM
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:31 PM
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From a canon point of view, both Supergates are the same size. There has never been any information to the contrary. Until TPTB actually tells us they are a different size (if they are a different size) we have to assume they are exactly the same.
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:32 PM
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Actually, I have perfect proof to support your theory now... The pieces used in the formation of the two Supergates are totally different... The one in Beachhead looks at least 2-3 times smaller than the one from Camelot (maybe even 4 times):

First, the one from Beachhead, the pieces are long and not really wide across, and the energy link is visibly larger, the gate visibly small...

Attached Image

compared to...

Attached Image

And Carter looks incredibly small on one of those pieces.

Attached Image

I think you are right, toolazy, the Supergate is very big indeed... That was so obvious, I totally missed it...

Now, here's the question: Why and how did they build it smaller in Beachhead?
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:36 PM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jul 26th 2006, 8:31 PM) *

From a canon point of view, both Supergates are the same size. There has never been any information to the contrary. Until TPTB actually tells us they are a different size (if they are a different size) we have to assume they are exactly the same.




how can you be that stupid? i mean, honestly, ive tried to look at it from your point of view, but it makes absolutly no sense. so, if all of a sudden they started using a stargate the size of teh gate orlin used in the gateroom, you would continue to assume its the same size as the original until they say otherwise on the show?

i mean, look at that picture that killermarv posted, the block itself is big enough to be huge spaceship


killermarv, thankyou for posting that picture of carter on the outside of the block from that far out that you can actually see it on one picture, the only ones i coudl find was one of her close up, then one of the empty block, and i had to use that little just out to her right to compare the 2 sizes, where did you find that picture at?

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 7:39 PM
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:41 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 27th 2006, 3:36 AM) *

..., where did you find that picture at?


Screenshots. I made them myself... It wasn't very hard. biggrin.gif
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Dafmeister
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:44 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 27th 2006, 1:36 AM) *
how can you be that stupid?
Attack me again and I'll remove your ability to post. dry.gif


QUOTE
so, if all of a sudden they started using a stargate the size of teh gate orlin used in the gateroom, you would continue to assume its the same size as the original until they say otherwise on the show?
No because there would actually be a reference point where any dimensions can be worked out to an accurate degree.
In the images of the Supergates there is no common reference point, all there is space so no accurate size can be worked out.
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:50 PM
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OK, here are more images. At the end of Beachhead, we see a Goa'uld transport ship fit between two blocks, with a little room behind it.

Attached Image

To help you with managing sizes, I will also provide the best I could find on transport ship sizes... Deadman Switch. It seems a good measure for sizes.

Attached Image

Now, I won't draw any conclusions. I will let those for you...
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toolazytothinkofanoriginalname
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:51 PM
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ok, you have a reference point that you know for the first gates blocks, they have to fit through the gate in 1 piece, so, that is 12 feet (aprox), you have a point of reference for the second gates blocks that you know, carter on the gate, you can estimate her about a little over 6feet in that suit

i mean, its like comparing 2 pictures of vehicles that are takin in a parking lot where the only point reference in each picture is a person standing by them. suppose in the first picture there is a little kid that you know is about 3 feet tall, and the vehicle is 3 times as long as they are tall, and the second one you have a guy who is about 6 feet tall, and the vehicle is 4 times his height, you never see the 2 side by side, and you never see them compared to the same object, but you can positivly say that the one with the guy standing next to it is larger than the one with the kid standing next to it, you cant prove it with a direct link, but you can estimate the size of the 2 cars, and compare those sizes

and, you would kick someone off because they insulted your intelligence?


about killermarvs pic of the supergate with the ship in there, remember that the ship is filling the space of one block, and the energyfield on either side of where the block should be

This post has been edited by toolazytothinkofanoriginalname: Jul 26th 2006, 7:52 PM
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KillerMarv
post Jul 26th 2006, 7:59 PM
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QUOTE(toolazytothinkofanoriginalname @ Jul 27th 2006, 3:51 AM) *

about killermarvs pic of the supergate with the ship in there, remember that the ship is filling the space of one block, and the energyfield on either side of where the block should be


Good, so if you compare this with the transport ship size, that makes the block not more than 10 meters wide, as Carter said.

In Camelot, Carter is on the flat side of the block... If that block is 10 meters wide, than something is not right about Carter. laugh.gif

And if I count right, the number of blocks in Camelot is bigger than the number of blocks in Beachhead. You can count easily a quarter section of the circle and multiply by 4. So, if there are bigger blocks and more of them, the gate has to be larger. 1.gif

Also, Daf, I'm thinking that making a different Supergate does not contradict the canon at all... Maybe it wasn't really canon, it wasn't mentioned that all the Supergates have this characteristics. biggrin.gif

I'll be searching more through episodes for right images... In the mean time, try not beat each other... laugh.gif

This post has been edited by KillerMarv: Jul 26th 2006, 8:00 PM
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