Stargate Information Archive

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 Search     Help     Rules     Members V     Calendar V     Live Chat V  

> Stargate Atlantis: General Discussion

This area is for general discussion of Stargate Atlantis only. Atlantis spoilers belong in the Spoilers & Speculation section. There are separate categories for Stargate SG-1 Discussion and Stargate Universe Discussion. Complete forum rules are available here.

Atlantis Index: General Discussion | Spoilers & Speculation | Specific Episode Discussion

7 Pages V « < 5 6 7  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> ZPM, When will it be depleted?
Abaddonian
post Nov 19th 2009, 2:41 AM
Post #145


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: November 19th 2009
Member No.: 34,911
Gender: Male



Can I just add something? I think I've figured out how the Ancients got enough energy to make ZPMs.

Basically you put several thousand geothermal mining facilities on a highly volcanic planet, basically a river of lava. You dial them all up to full, constantly harvesting massive amounts of power. You want to get all of this power back to your major cities, but you can't. You don't want them all to rely solely on renewable energy sources because although that supplies sufficient energy to power light, air conditioning, opening/closing doors etc, it doesn't provide enough power for shields, weapons or engines.

So you channel all of this gathered energy into a device that creates an artificial bubble of subspace time, and begins to charge it. Problem is, as soon as you begin to harvest this bubble with a ZPM, it can no longer be easily charged up; you could however, send the 'depleted' ZPM back to have the bubble recharged, but it would be difficult.

This system may be a little but limited as you would only put out say, one ZPM every twenty years, but in peacetime, that's more than enough; a set of three ZPMs could last you for tens of thousands of years; three of them ran Atlantis with shields up, fighting against the weight of the ocean, for ten thousand years, and it's quite possible they're not fully charged.

Anyway, then you run into an advanced race of lifesucking aliens that have a passion for killing things. You send warships powered by ZPMs to kill them

» Click to Show Spoiler «


Then you've got thousands of ships on your backside, constantly hammering your cities and outposts, and your stockpile quickly runs dry. With ZPM rationing (giving a full set of three only to cities under siege) you can stretch your reserves. The Wraith could put you in serious trouble simply by sending a massive armada of these
» Click to Show Spoiler «
to one of your 'ZPM factories'. You're no longer producing ZPMs. However, they store massive amounts of power, and you can last for a few more decades with the couple of spares each city has. Eventually, however, you simply don't have enough left to continue to power your massive ships and cities. So, you start to explore alternative energy sources i.e.

» Click to Show Spoiler «


These will buy you some time, but considering the massive reserves inside a ZPM can only power a city ship's shields for a matter of days under siege from a relatively small fleet of Wraith, they'd only be good for easing the strain of your big, expensive, now impossible to produce Zero Point Modules. Since the Wraith probably just put massive fleets (thousands of cruisers) around any planets or systems that hold enough cheap, easy energy to make new ZPMs, your energy sources will be gone pretty quickly.

As a side-note, however, I think Atlantis, the capital city, carried more than just three ZPMs, as the Ancient hologram said, '...Here we were besieged for many years...'; this implies that unless they submerged the city immediately, they would need many ZPMs, judging by 'the siege'... Two dozen? Three dozen, assuming that they constantly batted the ships down with drones before they really opened up. This implies that the only reason they didn't lose the war really quickly was that they had a massive stockpile, with six or seven spares on each city ship, and dozens on Atlantis. Perhaps there was more than one 'ZPM factory'... king.gif See! Simple!

Oh well, just a theory, and since the show's bogus after season one, somewhat meaningless. However, I hope that I've provided some new information for this stimulating conversation ph34r.gif .

Also, I think that although it's probably easy to make a new ZPM casing, crystal, conduit, whatever you want to call it, it would still have to be charged, and getting enough power is the actual problem, not making a new one. The Atlantis Expedition haven't come across a power source that can even come close to creating a new subspace bubble to attach one to.

This is becoming truly titanic in size... To answer the question that this 'thread' is asking; I think a ZPM can be depleted just like a battery; I don't think that it becomes damaged, otherwise it would flicker, sputter, and they wouldn't be able to accurately determine its percentage charge remaining, plus if they were like that, when they were on low charge, I think that they would have a habit of dying, rather suddenly, without warning.

I think they deplete their subspace bubble over time, and that... If you put a light strain on a ZPM, it operated at high efficiency for a massive period of time e.g. tens of thousands of years. If you put a massive load on a ZPM, not much of the energy makes it to what you're trying to power. Most of it just... Gets flushed out into subspace??? We know it's not dissipated as heat...

Anyway, I think in general, if you try to use them for combat, raising gigantic energy shields blocking terrawatts worth of energy fire, they don't work very well; in 'the siege' the shield holds for a very short period of time, if it truly held the kind of energy stated in the show and pumped it out at near one-hundred percent efficiency, it should hold for at least six months. Much of it must go to waste, but if you use three, the efficiency for large-scale applications goes up dramatically. Maybe how the Ancients held out for so long? bow.gif king.gif

This post has been edited by Abaddonian: Nov 19th 2009, 6:54 AM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dave312
post Nov 19th 2009, 6:37 PM
Post #146


Senior Master Sergeant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 367
Joined: September 23rd 2007
From: Australia
Member No.: 15,343
Gender: Male



Interesting theory but I do have one problem with it. We know the replicators thrived on only their planet for thousands of years and they had dozens of ZPM's. So if your theory of using geothermal energy to charge them is correct, they why did the replicators use ZPM's when they could only gather the geothermal energy from their planet. It would be more efficient to run the geothermal energy straight into the city's systems to reduce the amount of losses instead of charging up ZPM's.

I generally tend to think that ZPM's where built like any other device, but they avoid the whole energy in = energy out law of thermal dynamics because they draw their energy from subspace. It would work much the same way to when they built the bridge to draw vacuum energy from an alternate universe; the energy already exists to you don't need it to build the device. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with this but it's not like there is a definite answer.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Abaddonian
post Nov 20th 2009, 3:38 AM
Post #147


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: November 19th 2009
Member No.: 34,911
Gender: Male



Very true, and in general I agree with you, but haven't the replicators shown that they have difficulty in coming up with new ideas? Maybe their creative limitations extend to power production?

But yes, in general I think that you're right. I can't think of a valid reason for harvesting geothermal energy and then storing and then discharging it when your original energy output is more than sufficient. sad.gif

So if a ZPM draws energy directly from subspace and that source is unlimited, then that would mean that either the ZPM uses a secondary power source to tap into subspace that becomes depleted, which is somewhat hard to believe since the Ancients would just add a slot to insert a new one, plus other arguments, or that the devices become damaged as you draw power from subspace; they never actually become depleted in the traditional sense...

It's a shame someone can't go to Egypt and dig me up a fully charged ZPM to study. I give good rates, one dollar per ZPM. Aussie, of course. Only problem is I think I'd have a few dozen crack troops laying siege to my house. Unlike the Ancients, I don't have a shield generator=ZPM is no help against them!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dave312
post Nov 20th 2009, 6:27 PM
Post #148


Senior Master Sergeant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 367
Joined: September 23rd 2007
From: Australia
Member No.: 15,343
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Abaddonian @ Nov 20th 2009, 7:38 PM) *

So if a ZPM draws energy directly from subspace and that source is unlimited, then that would mean that either the ZPM uses a secondary power source to tap into subspace that becomes depleted, which is somewhat hard to believe since the Ancients would just add a slot to insert a new one, plus other arguments, or that the devices become damaged as you draw power from subspace; they never actually become depleted in the traditional sense...

Well they do always say that it is an artificial region of subspace, so maybe that means they isolate a small region of subspace which can then become depleted. Like I said, there are holes in my theory but we don't have enough information to fill them in.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Abaddonian
post Nov 21st 2009, 12:17 AM
Post #149


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: November 19th 2009
Member No.: 34,911
Gender: Male



Actually, there are no holes in your theory; if ZPMs are 'charged'-we're not sure if they are-by simply isolating a section of subspace, and then connecting it to a ZPM, that would explain how the Replicators got all of their energy from-they simply isolate a section of subspace every time they need a new ZPM or need to recharge an old one.

Actually there is a hole in your theory, but only a very small one, and it can be explained. If that's all it took, simply isolating a section of subspace, then there are only three reasons why the Ancients lost the war:

1: The facility to isolate new sections was destroyed, which is possible, since it may have been dangerous and/or very difficult, may have been an isolated section of space, and it was the first of the Wraith targets.

2: The crystals to make the ZPMs themselves may have been very difficult to come by, and eventually the Ancients couldn't mine enough of it quickly enough to make new ZPMs. (Though if that was the case, they could have used transporter technology to create new materiels for a ZPM, maybe beyond their capabilities?)

3: They eventually just... Got impatient; if they could make new ZPMs at Atlantis, then after many decades maybe they just gave up, there were too many Wraith, and they couldn't be bothered waiting for the Wraith ZPMs to get depleted.

Of course, since it didn't actually happen and we can't go to Atlantis and look through the history books, it's difficult to say. But I think that your theory is the best one proposed so far; if it took incredible amounts of energy to create a ZPM i.e. the same as it put out or more than it put out, then they would have simply used the energy sources used for their construction to directly power their cities.

Another thing, what's with the military ranking system that all of the members have? I don't really get it.

This post has been edited by Abaddonian: Nov 21st 2009, 12:17 AM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dave312
post Nov 21st 2009, 12:40 AM
Post #150


Senior Master Sergeant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 367
Joined: September 23rd 2007
From: Australia
Member No.: 15,343
Gender: Male



I would say case 3 is the most likely. We know the Ancients were trying to develop new weapons to fight against the Wraith but in the end, they could not come up with anything effective enough to win the war. And remember that the Ancients were down to the point where they only controlled Atlantis, so their access to resources would be extremely limited.

I don't think the Ancients were aware of the Wraith cloning facility. It is just speculation but I would have thought that if they knew, the Ancients would have done everything they could to destroy it.

The military ranking system is based on how many posts you have made. Here's the thread which explains it all.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

7 Pages V « < 5 6 7
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: September 20th 2014 - 10:58 AM
Stargate Information Archive

Stargate SG-1 © 1997-2013 MGM Worldwide Television, Inc.
Stargate Atlantis © 2004-2013 MGM Worldwide Television, Inc.
Text and images from this site may not be used without permission.

All comments on these pages belong to the author of those comments, and
do not necessarily reflect the views of the Stargate Information Archive.