Stargate Information Archive

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 Search     Help     Rules     Members V     Calendar V     Live Chat V  
4 Pages V « < 2 3 4  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 218 - Michael
Rating  4
shogi
post Mar 28th 2006, 7:19 AM
Post #73


Airman First Class
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: February 3rd 2006
Member No.: 11,073
Gender: Male



QUOTE(shogi @ Mar 2nd 2006, 5:17 PM) *

Did anyone else find it strange how Michael knew exactly how to use the laptop??


Just 1 more query.......I know we use some kind of Universal Translator but is that for vocals only or does that also include, being able to read??

I say this because Michael saw the 1st few clips of the experiment & when he realised what might be happening, he looked at all the discs in 1 go & inserted the disc marked day 1.

If the translator does help you read as well as speak, then why can't we read Ancient?? Confuzzled.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Christy
post Mar 31st 2006, 6:58 AM
Post #74


Captain
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 990
Joined: August 18th 2004
From: Australia Mate!
Member No.: 6,098
Gender: Female



I dont think it can help you read because of the language wouldnt be in your head type of thing...but i think most of the planets speak english anyway...like we cant understand it when say the Goul'd are talking.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alley
post Apr 2nd 2006, 9:42 AM
Post #75


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: March 16th 2006
Member No.: 11,482
Gender: Female



QUOTE(Cha'Lok @ Jan 17th 2006, 2:26 PM) *

Pretty good episode! I give it a 7.8/10. I really liked the ending, it just makes the episode more a part of the whole season instead of an episode on its self. I was starting to feel there was hardly a story arc (that's what it's called right?). I liked the suspense that everybody knew what was going on, except poor Michael. Finally Weir did something against Sheppards will, anybody thinks this was done intentionatly (sp?) by the writers because a lot of people felt like Sheppard was in charge? Especially because of the look on Sheppards face. Hated Ronan again, what did he add to this episode? Not much if anything at all! If they replaced him with some soldier I wouldn't have noticed.

Oh and yay for more firepower, can't wait to see what they come up with w00t.gif


Dude i like this episode two, but what Michel does not see is that they saved him from sucking the life out of humans. But it is good that he left, he will play a big role in the next cople episodes =)
I LOVE MICHEL
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Sighfienerd
post Apr 2nd 2006, 5:17 PM
Post #76


Beyond here there be dragons
Group Icon

Group: Donating Members
Posts: 1,387
Joined: December 4th 2004
From: Beyond "here"
Member No.: 7,150
Gender: Female



QUOTE(IndyJan @ Feb 26th 2006, 12:20 AM) *

I'm with Xay on this issue about them doing these medical experiments. It's wrong. Unfortunately, Weir and her people view them as animals, and nothing more. It's the same mentality that the Nazis had about the Jews. They are not human, so what?

Hmmm. I think the point was that they are supposed to be "human", only accidentally mutated. If you look at it from that perspective, it's possible that the Atlantis team's actions could be justified in that they were attempting to heal a hurt that the Wraith had suffered to their genetic makeup - just as we try to heal hemophilia or MS or any other genetic anomaly.

Nice pick up on the switched use of weapons, Indy!

I really enjoyed Connor Trineer in this episode, and I hope we'll see more of Michael in the future. I also like the chemistry between Michael and Teyla - much more so than any of the forced combinations we've seen so far with her.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dafmeister
post Apr 2nd 2006, 5:52 PM
Post #77


General
Group Icon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,926
Joined: April 10th 2003
From: North Wales, UK
Member No.: 1,340
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Sighfienerd @ Apr 2nd 2006, 11:17 PM) *
Hmmm. I think the point was that they are supposed to be "human", only accidentally mutated. If you look at it from that perspective, it's possible that the Atlantis team's actions could be justified in that they were attempting to heal a hurt that the Wraith had suffered to their genetic makeup - just as we try to heal hemophilia or MS or any other genetic anomaly.
If you look at it from the Wraiths' perspective the Atlantis team are trying to wipe them out, in effect they are performing a genetic cleansing. The Wraith are a sentient race (ok they are an evil, sentient race) but that doesnt mean they can be wiped out by suing gene therapy.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Sighfienerd
post Apr 2nd 2006, 6:06 PM
Post #78


Beyond here there be dragons
Group Icon

Group: Donating Members
Posts: 1,387
Joined: December 4th 2004
From: Beyond "here"
Member No.: 7,150
Gender: Female



QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Apr 2nd 2006, 6:52 PM) *

If you look at it from the Wraiths' perspective the Atlantis team are trying to wipe them out, in effect they are performing a genetic cleansing. The Wraith are a sentient race (ok they are an evil, sentient race) but that doesnt mean they can be wiped out by suing gene therapy.

But they're not getting wiped out. They're simply reverting to their original, intended form. And if you think about it, the Atlantis team could actually be ensuring that their race will survive, since the Wraith have essentially culled the Pegasus galaxy of their only food source and therefore set the stage for their own extinction.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
thefirstone
post Apr 3rd 2006, 7:45 AM
Post #79


Second Lieutenant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 509
Joined: July 28th 2005
From: Dublin, Ireland
Member No.: 9,686
Gender: Male



maybe michael saw Dr. Beckett using one when he was being tested an maybe saw him put the cd into the drive when he was recording the data. just a thought.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Sighfienerd
post Apr 3rd 2006, 6:32 PM
Post #80


Beyond here there be dragons
Group Icon

Group: Donating Members
Posts: 1,387
Joined: December 4th 2004
From: Beyond "here"
Member No.: 7,150
Gender: Female



QUOTE(thefirstone @ Apr 3rd 2006, 8:45 AM) *

maybe michael saw Dr. Beckett using one when he was being tested an maybe saw him put the cd into the drive when he was recording the data. just a thought.

I'm not sure if this is really an issue. I think the Wraith have probably had sufficient dealings with the Atlantis team to have some knowledge of their technology. The Wraith are not stupid by any means. If Rodney and others have been able to glean at least a basic understanding of Wraith technology, I would certainly think the converse would be true as well - and Teyla definitely implied (while sparring) that Michael's knowledge had not been forgotten, just temporarily difficult to access.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mau
post Apr 16th 2006, 5:59 PM
Post #81


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: March 10th 2006
Member No.: 11,385
Gender: Male



QUOTE(xayeidemon @ Feb 25th 2006, 5:38 AM) *

Ethically, this was one of the worst things I've seen anyone on either SG shows do. I guess the Hippocratic Oath doesn't apply to the Pegasus Galaxy. I used to think that SG-1 had the market cornered on Let's Do Dumb Sh*t This Week ™, but the folks on Atlantis proved they can lay claims to the coveted title, too. I'm a scientist, and one of the first things they taught us in school was that you don't do crap like this. You don't do experiments on people (yes, the Wraith are people, too) without their prior consent. The medical and scientific communities learned this little lesson after WWII. dry.gif

sad.gif


In Stargate SG1, theres was a similar episode with the fitht and samantha carter, and in the next episodes, stargate sg1 payed for that mistake, but this episode went to far.
But lets not compare the 2 episodes.This one, is far worst and the evil "face" of this Stargate Atlantis team is on fire!I didn?t like it. No other episode, prepared or justified to the audience and to the stargate atlantis team for this kind of experience, so the moral "face" of this team it is now on the negative score. Now, for me they all are a bunch of hipocrates.

Other considerations (The so called team):
The caracter Weir, for me, is the worst character in the series. A lider should always be a strong lider. She is not!She only ask questions, and then yes or no.Buh!! Maybe you should try get her naked to get some interest!
The Ronin guy, is a good character, but please, he always doing things against the decisions of his team.No lider can?t allow this kind of actions.In this episode he went to far. Sheppart or Weir didn?t say or do nothing towars his actions.No lider can?t let this go.
Taila: Well, the agressivity in this character, most of the time just doesn?t fit on her. Shes makes the right questions, the right comments,i don?t know...if they tried to make a Tealc, well, no way dudes. Maybe, just maybe i prefer her as a lider instead of weir.
Sheppard: i like him, hes more agressive than oneil. I think he just need to get more "hand" on this team.
Mkay: the most interesting character on this show, but why he always on mission that required military training? the guy doesn?t fight, period! dont waste the time of this character.

Conclusion:
This episode proved what the last episodes are saying to us. This is a very weird team dudes. Very weird!

This post has been edited by Mau: Apr 16th 2006, 6:01 PM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
J&S4Ever
post May 11th 2006, 10:07 PM
Post #82


Master Sergeant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 310
Joined: February 21st 2005
From: Pharr, Texas
Member No.: 8,176
Gender: Female



QUOTE(Goa'uld @ Feb 24th 2006, 11:36 PM) *

This episode made no sense at all. In the episode where Sheppard wanted to test the drug that made people immune to the wraith, Dr. Weir got all mad, and said that it was against the Geneva Convention. In this episode, she orders them to change a wraith into a human, and she doesn't see anything wrong with it.

This episode gets a 2/10.



I caught this episode in the middle, so I was a bit confused, but after I saw the repeat I was so pissed. I totally agree with this. I was just shocked that they would actually experiement like this on a living sentient being. That fact that they are supposed to be human..Ancient...I don't get. In Rising the recording said they happened on a world where a terrible enemy slumbered. So they seeded the planet and left while the Wraith evolved to suck human life force...Oh that was a cool movie...and they didn't realize this? Is there a discussion thread for Wraith evolution?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Samantha Carter 1013
post Jun 27th 2006, 12:52 PM
Post #83


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: June 27th 2006
Member No.: 11,938
Gender: Female



Hi! first time in a forum smile.gif sad.gif biggrin.gif and I'm kind of frustrated 'cause of this episode and the lack of people in my country who actually watch stargate, I have nobody to talk to oops.gif so, the episode, I was really surprised that elizabeth had given permission to do this to michael, I have tha concept of Elizabeth being the really good good girl, never brake a rule kind of girl, and it just surprised me, I love how they are developing the character really, they are avoind the hammond style, but I'm still confused huh.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Captain Connor
post Jun 30th 2006, 9:09 AM
Post #84


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: June 29th 2006
From: Auckland
Member No.: 11,945
Gender: Male



Ok... I'm about to broach a dangerous subject here... 'comparitive morality'.

The episode where Weir protests the 'Geneva Convention' approach, refers to an action that would lead to 1) the death of a large amount of human lives as the vaccine took hold, and 2) a larger number of deaths amongst the Wraith population as the biological agent wiped them out after attempting to feed. This situation uses both biological weapons and the potential act of genocide, which definitely comes in at the larger end of moral faux pas.

As to 'experimenting' on Michael, you could argue that what they were in fact trying to do was cure a genetic disease. At the core the Wraith are human, and that it is only the Wriath 'virus' that makes them the way they are. From Weirs' perspective the attempt to cure one Wraith, of the virus that makes him a monster, and to return him to his natural human state is somewhat akin to a risky heart operation. If it had proved a perminant solution the Wraith population could have been turned human, effectively removing the threat of culling and feeding, without resorting to the genoside the earlier episodes actions would have led to.

As I said, comparitive morality is dangerous territory, because how far is too far? And who decides what exactly is too far?

This post has been edited by Captain Connor: Jun 30th 2006, 9:11 AM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dafmeister
post Jun 30th 2006, 10:17 AM
Post #85


General
Group Icon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,926
Joined: April 10th 2003
From: North Wales, UK
Member No.: 1,340
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Captain Connor @ Jun 30th 2006, 3:09 PM) *
As to 'experimenting' on Michael, you could argue that what they were in fact trying to do was cure a genetic disease. At the core the Wraith are human, and that it is only the Wriath 'virus' that makes them the way they are. From Weirs' perspective the attempt to cure one Wraith, of the virus that makes him a monster, and to return him to his natural human state is somewhat akin to a risky heart operation. If it had proved a perminant solution the Wraith population could have been turned human, effectively removing the threat of culling and feeding, without resorting to the genoside the earlier episodes actions would have led to.
The thing is though, they weren't trying to cure a virus in the Wraith. They Wraith did not evolve because of a virus, Iratus bug DNA and Human DNA mixed to produce them. A retrovirus was used to suppress the Iratus bug DNA not to cure a virus.
The arguement is that Weir had no right to perform those tests on Michael because he is an entirely different race. He was not an infected Human, he was a Wraith. As the episode showed, even after the retrovirus was used, Michael was still a Wraith depsite his outward appearance.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Captain Connor
post Jun 30th 2006, 10:32 AM
Post #86


Civilian
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: June 29th 2006
From: Auckland
Member No.: 11,945
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jul 1st 2006, 3:17 AM) *

The thing is though, they weren't trying to cure a virus in the Wraith. They Wraith did not evolve because of a virus, Iratus bug DNA and Human DNA mixed to produce them. A retrovirus was used to suppress the Iratus bug DNA not to cure a virus.
The arguement is that Weir had no right to perform those tests on Michael because he is an entirely different race. He was not an infected Human, he was a Wraith. As the episode showed, even after the retrovirus was used, Michael was still a Wraith depsite his outward appearance.

True, true... however the thing here is perception. You're correct, I believe, however if the perception was that they were correcting something that should never have been, they may just have seen themselves as 'curing' the Wraith.

I imagine there is also a time factor to consider... you can only see so many killed, or fed on, before your moral outlook begins to change. As they move towards a more 'It's either them or us' mentality, you may see more questionable decisions. Ultimately it may come down to 'war to the knife'.

This post has been edited by Captain Connor: Jun 30th 2006, 10:33 AM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Christy
post Jul 15th 2006, 8:12 AM
Post #87


Captain
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 990
Joined: August 18th 2004
From: Australia Mate!
Member No.: 6,098
Gender: Female



While I do not think it fair that they experiment on a living being I do not believe the code of conduct would be the same in the pegasus galaxy as they don't really have anyone to answer to. They'd probably put it down to scietific research...
As Weir explained it...originally the wraith were Iratus bugs and evolved when human dna merged with the bug...so all they're doing in reversing the evolution.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Matman
post Jul 15th 2006, 8:30 AM
Post #88


where's my gameboy...
Group Icon

Group: Donating Members
Posts: 634
Joined: September 15th 2005
From: IL
Member No.: 10,164
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Mau @ Apr 16th 2006, 5:59 PM) *

This one, is far worst and the evil "face" of this Stargate Atlantis team is on fire!I didn?t like it. No other episode, prepared or justified to the audience and to the stargate atlantis team for this kind of experience, so the moral "face" of this team it is now on the negative score. Now, for me they all are a bunch of hipocrates.

Other considerations (The so called team):
The caracter Weir, for me, is the worst character in the series. A lider should always be a strong lider. She is not!She only ask questions, and then yes or no.Buh!! Maybe you should try get her naked to get some interest!
The Ronin guy, is a good character, but please, he always doing things against the decisions of his team.No lider can?t allow this kind of actions.In this episode he went to far. Sheppart or Weir didn?t say or do nothing towars his actions.No lider can?t let this go.
Taila: Well, the agressivity in this character, most of the time just doesn?t fit on her. Shes makes the right questions, the right comments,i don?t know...if they tried to make a Tealc, well, no way dudes. Maybe, just maybe i prefer her as a lider instead of weir.
Sheppard: i like him, hes more agressive than oneil. I think he just need to get more "hand" on this team.
Mkay: the most interesting character on this show, but why he always on mission that required military training? the guy doesn?t fight, period! dont waste the time of this character.

Conclusion:
This episode proved what the last episodes are saying to us. This is a very weird team dudes. Very weird!



Easy Fella! laugh.gif The Atlantis team was just trying to help get rid of the Wriath, and it still could work.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dafmeister
post Jul 15th 2006, 9:53 AM
Post #89


General
Group Icon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,926
Joined: April 10th 2003
From: North Wales, UK
Member No.: 1,340
Gender: Male



QUOTE(Christy @ Jul 15th 2006, 2:12 PM) *

While I do not think it fair that they experiment on a living being I do not believe the code of conduct would be the same in the pegasus galaxy as they don't really have anyone to answer to. They'd probably put it down to scietific research...
Atlantis is still governed by Earth so all the rules and regulations would still apply. Weir had no right to order experimenation on the Wraith.


QUOTE
As Weir explained it...originally the wraith were Iratus bugs and evolved when human dna merged with the bug...so all they're doing in reversing the evolution.
Due to the fact it was evolution Weir had no right to assume she could reverse the evolution of the Wraith.
The Iratus bug and the Wraith both exist in Pegasus, the same way that Humans and primates do on Earth. What if an alien race came to Earth and decided that Humans weren't supposed to have evolved from primates and went about reversing Human evolution?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IndyJan
post Jul 27th 2007, 2:45 AM
Post #90


Lieutenant General
Group Icon

Group: Donating Members
Posts: 5,356
Joined: July 17th 2004
Member No.: 5,622
Gender: Female



There are a number of issues with this episode.

For season 1, people were complaining that Weir couldn't make tough decisions. She was too wishy-washy. Well, guess what, she did make a tough call. Was it the correct call to make? In her mind and for the betterment and safety of her "people" and Atlantis, it was the correct call to make.

Morally, was it the correct call to make. IMO, absolutely not, why because as Daf has said Michael was a sentient being. He wasn't a lab experiment gone wrong. He didn't ask to be changed. He had a right to be as he was. He didn't want to change in anyway.

Knowing all that, if I had been in charge would I have made the decision that Weir did? You are darn tooting I would! You are no longer on Earth. You are fighting for your life. You need to find a way to stay alive. You are not killing this person, or even trying to eradicate their whole race. You are just trying to find a way to co-exist.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

4 Pages V « < 2 3 4
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: August 20th 2014 - 5:24 PM
Stargate Information Archive

Stargate SG-1 © 1997-2013 MGM Worldwide Television, Inc.
Stargate Atlantis © 2004-2013 MGM Worldwide Television, Inc.
Text and images from this site may not be used without permission.

All comments on these pages belong to the author of those comments, and
do not necessarily reflect the views of the Stargate Information Archive.