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> Gate Theory 102, discuss how the gate works
OdinisThor'sDad
post Jan 4th 2006, 11:21 PM
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Talk about how the gate works here.

Here's a linky to the old one.

gate theory 101
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togar
post Jan 7th 2006, 11:54 PM
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ok, suppose someone runs through the gate ducking, and their head goes through first, how would they get through, because they woudnt be able to walk? or would the gate just pull them through at that point, like it did in the movie?
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Kaya
post Jan 8th 2006, 9:30 PM
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QUOTE(togar @ Jan 7th 2006, 11:54 PM) *

ok, suppose someone runs through the gate ducking, and their head goes through first, how would they get through, because they woudnt be able to walk? or would the gate just pull them through at that point, like it did in the movie?

possibly a combination of residual nerve impulses, and momentum.

if you're going to look at things that way try this - why do people not suffer significant blood loss when they hold a limb in the stargate?

This post has been edited by Kaya: Jan 8th 2006, 9:32 PM
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togar
post Jan 9th 2006, 12:03 AM
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ive wondered about that as well
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Auntie Em!
post Jan 9th 2006, 12:10 AM
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Because the gates does NOT disingerate what passes through the event horizon until ALL of them has gone through. Thus, the head is still intact.

(PS dont bring up 102 either. It does not count 1.gif)
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togar
post Jan 9th 2006, 12:18 AM
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102? when it chops off the back of his head?

ok, if it doesntdisintegrate what passes through, where does it go? it doesnt stick out the back of the gate, otherwise, like from sga, in the one where sheppard gets the bug stuck on his neck, ford would be dead, because the rest of him would be out in space, thats the part im assuming kaya was refering to, his arm was hanging out
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Janos
post Jan 9th 2006, 1:22 AM
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OK, OK, OK.....

In the episode 48 Hours, we find out that the gate has a buffer system. Meaning that it loads all the data for a person/object inside the gate computer.

In the Atlantis episode, 38 Minutes, we learn that gates treat objects as a whole. Meaning, that the only way an object or person can travel through the gate is if they enter it completely. Once a complete unit goes into the gate, the gate can then transmit that unit to its destination. In SG1's, Gemini, Replicarter tries to escape through the gate, Teal'C grabs her before she completely vanishes in the Event horizon so they're still one "unit" and he's able to pull her back out because she was never sent to the other side of the wormhole. However, once she leaves her arm behind, she's whisked away to wherever she went.

However, until the entire unit goes through, it's still in the gate's buffer system.

We've also seen various episodes that show people and objects entering the gate from a side view. As soon as they cross the Event Horizon, they're gone. So, the act of passing through the EH will disintegrate things.

The problem arises when people walk through. As soon as your toe enters the gate, you'd be leaking blood out. Then the rest of your foot, then your leg, and so on until you're through the EH. However, that doesn't happen.

In the Episode, Shades of Grey, O'Neill sticks his arm through the EH and has no ill effects. Nor did Teal'C in Gemini, or any other instance. As a matter of fact, it isn't until the gate is shut down in episode 102, The Enemy Within, that Kawalski finally dies. While his head was in an active EH while parts of him were still outside of it, along with O'Neill and Teal'C as well, everything worked just fine. He was able to operate his limbs and struggle with a foe.

What does that tell us?

It tells us, that when a person is partially inside of the Event Horizon, their body is still in communication with the parts that are disintegrated.

So, when you stick your hand, arm, foot, head... whatever... when a part of you goes into the gate, the gate is making sure everything is OK. It's making sure that your blood isn't leaking out. The blood that's coming out of your arm is disintegrating and the blood that should be going back into your arm is reintegrating. Electrical signals telling your arm to move are still being sent back and forth as if your arm were still connected to you because all of that information is going into the buffer.

As long at least a little part of you is still outside the gate, you're still aware of everything. However, once you pass completely through the Event Horizon (as some of the people did in 38 Minutes), you're just a bunch of particles and energy.

We do have one bit of contradictory evidence. In The Torment of Tantalus, Dr. Livingston was connected to a breathing suit connected to an air tube. As far as the Stargate was concerned, he should have been one unit like the Puddle Jumper with all of its passengers was in 38 Minutes, or like Teal'C and Replicarter in Gemini. However that's not the case. So what should we choose as canon?

Well, with contradictory information, we have to ignore some of the evidence. There's an abunance of information for the aforementioned theory of how the gate operates wheras The Torment of Tantalus is the only definitive evidence against it. So, I prefer to go with the evidence that shows much more of the Gate operations rather than the one episode that shows something else. So, just ignore what happened in The Torment of Tantalus

We talked about this in great detail in the last Gate Theory thread (pages and pages) so I hope that this is a decent summation of what we came up with.
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togar
post Jan 9th 2006, 1:39 AM
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i gotta disagree w/ the comment that you are still aware once you are partially broken down, because when they pulled ford out, he had no clue what was going on. you can stick a body part in, and pull it out, but you do not have control over that body part. you dont need to have control of your hand to pull it out, as long as you have control of your arm, you can do it

as for the gemini episode, remember that each individual replicator block is capable of acting indipendently, but they work together to create whatever shape, and in terms of the microscopic ones, in the shape of a person, now those blocks could realize that they are not able to escape, and deactivate so the rest of the body could

the gate does transmit things as a whole, but the object is turned into energyas it passes the event horizon, and if it is pulled back out, the event horizon just reintigrates the object or person, just as it would if it were coming out of a stargate

ok, now in 38 min, they established that it transmits things all in one piece, and the cable from tot, and the rope from 100days happend before they came up with that rule, but, even if it was waiting for the rest of the ship, theoreticly, a person should be able to jump through the stargate, and come out before the ship does, because you are an independent entity as opposed to the ship, because you are not connected to it.

something from that episode that mckay said also backs up my statment about that whatever goes through is broken down, because someone wanted to reach through to get the pilot, but mckay said they couldnt because the arm would be demateralized as soon as it crossed

This post has been edited by togar: Jan 9th 2006, 1:44 AM
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Auntie Em!
post Jan 9th 2006, 3:32 AM
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You cannot reach in to the EH and put something that has gone through it COMPLETELY out because it has dematerialized. You would be reaching around for nothing. It is a matter of wholes.

1% outside the EH 99% in the EH += can still come back out
0% outside the EH 100% in the EH =dematerialized

It is that simple.
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togar
post Jan 9th 2006, 3:34 AM
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ok, so what exactly are you trying to say? it sounds like you're just backing up my statement that you cant reach into the event horizon and pull someone or something out
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Auntie Em!
post Jan 9th 2006, 3:46 AM
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Janos said the same thing. You cannot reach into the EH and try and remove something that has 100% of its matter inside the EH.

However, when even a small part of said person or object is still outside the EH it is not disintegrated yet. That does not mean you can reach in say if only a leg is outside the EH and pat someone on the head. But you can pull on the leg and take the person out of the EH.

Things entering the EH, the gate has the ability to know when the WHOLE unit has passed through the EH. At which point, the disintegrated unit is sent through the wormhole to the other gates buffer.
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Andorian15
post Jan 9th 2006, 3:51 AM
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Heres a problem I always had with the gate. It is proven that there is a slight pull towards the gate (one example is seen in fire and water.) But heres a problem I noticed. If a person moves so much as a millimeter in any direction other than forwards while going through the gate, something horrible is going to happen right?

or is that a problem solved by the whole "objects are materialised all at once" thing?
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Auntie Em!
post Jan 9th 2006, 5:00 AM
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No look at "Shades of Grey" when Jack comes back through the gate he wiggles his gun in the EH to keep it open. Nothing bad happens because the gun has not been broken down yet. Yet he moves it in and out, up and down in the EH.
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togar
post Jan 9th 2006, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE(Auntie Em! @ Jan 9th 2006, 3:46 AM) *

Janos said the same thing. You cannot reach into the EH and try and remove something that has 100% of its matter inside the EH.

However, when even a small part of said person or object is still outside the EH it is not disintegrated yet. That does not mean you can reach in say if only a leg is outside the EH and pat someone on the head. But you can pull on the leg and take the person out of the EH.

Things entering the EH, the gate has the ability to know when the WHOLE unit has passed through the EH. At which point, the disintegrated unit is sent through the wormhole to the other gates buffer.



no you cant, as soon as your arm woudl cross the event horizon, it would be energy, you cant reach around inside the event horizon to grab something, because it is broken down as soon as it passes through, otherwise, where is it? you can pull them out by whatever body part: ;leg, hand... is sticking out, but you cant reach in to grab them, no matter how much of them is left
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Parmenides
post Jan 9th 2006, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE(togar @ Jan 9th 2006, 4:53 PM) *

no you cant, as soon as your arm woudl cross the event horizon, it would be energy, you cant reach around inside the event horizon to grab something, because it is broken down as soon as it passes through, otherwise, where is it? you can pull them out by whatever body part: ;leg, hand... is sticking out, but you cant reach in to grab them, no matter how much of them is left

Well d'uh! that's exactly what Em said!

You can pull someone out by their 'exposed' limb, but not by anything that is beyond the event horizon.

I think we might just have done this to death... huh.gif 1.gif
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Dafmeister
post Jan 9th 2006, 1:28 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Jan 9th 2006, 5:22 PM) *
I think we might just have done this to death... huh.gif 1.gif
It seems as though people are arguing about the exact same things that have been discussed in Gate Theory 101 years ago.
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OdinisThor'sDad
post Jan 10th 2006, 2:22 PM
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Yep. But there are new members who were intiminated by a 16 page thread.

The old one is closed. So they can say what they want.
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Janos
post Jan 10th 2006, 2:37 PM
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QUOTE(OdinisThor'sDad @ Jan 10th 2006, 12:22 PM) *

Yep. But there are new members who were intiminated by a 16 page thread.

The old one is closed. So they can say what they want.

I never understood that... I was curious when I joined, I read all the pages of the Gate Theory 101, Hyperspace, Iris, and 9th Chevron topics. What's so friggin' hard about reading for n00bs?
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togar
post Jan 10th 2006, 7:35 PM
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would you rather read through many many pages, or engage in a discussion about the topic, a discussion is always better, because for one, you learn more, and you can ask the specific questions you want, rather than trying to remember if the answer was somewhere in those 16 pages

» Click for Spoiler «
that would be helpful incase an enemy ever got their hands on the tollan tech of walking through stuff
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hobo_joe20
post Jan 10th 2006, 9:08 PM
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QUOTE(togar @ Jan 10th 2006, 7:35 PM) *

would you rather read through many many pages, or engage in a discussion about the topic, a discussion is always better, because for one, you learn more, and you can ask the specific questions you want, rather than trying to remember if the answer was somewhere in those 16 pages

as a matter of fact enjoyed reading all those pages. It was very insightful and answered a bunch of my questions with out me bugging everyone again. If I thought up something different, then I would post it up. People would at least respect that I took the time to read over all those pages and began to take me seriously. and you know what, from the other end now I realize why. Too many n00bs asking the same damn questions. "where does the iris go. Well, try looking at the 2nd post.". I remember that alot for some reason ...
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Gotanks
post Jan 11th 2006, 1:00 PM
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QUOTE(Auntie Em! @ Jan 9th 2006, 9:46 AM) *

Janos said the same thing. You cannot reach into the EH and try and remove something that has 100% of its matter inside the EH.

However, when even a small part of said person or object is still outside the EH it is not disintegrated yet. That does not mean you can reach in say if only a leg is outside the EH and pat someone on the head. But you can pull on the leg and take the person out of the EH.

Things entering the EH, the gate has the ability to know when the WHOLE unit has passed through the EH. At which point, the disintegrated unit is sent through the wormhole to the other gates buffer.


Yeah, like Lt. Fords hand sticking out in "38 Minutes"

I wonder, ex: when a Puddle Jumper heads back to Atlantis, the gate shuts down auto when its through. But how does the gate know when there are more coming or not?
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hobo_joe20
post Jan 11th 2006, 1:28 PM
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QUOTE(Gotanks @ Jan 11th 2006, 1:00 PM) *

I wonder, ex: when a Puddle Jumper heads back to Atlantis, the gate shuts down auto when its through. But how does the gate know when there are more coming or not?

We don't really have an answer to that, because there are many times where eople have hung back and waited to go through and yet the game remained active. All I have figured out is that the gate will detect weither something has entered the wormhole at one end before somethign else leaves the other end. So if person A goes through the wormhole, and person B waits until after person A comes out the other side, person B may find the wormhole closed on them. So, to summarize:

Works.
Person A -> outgoing side.
Person B -> outgoing side.

Person A -> enters wormhole.
Person B -> enters wormhole.

Person A-> exits on incomming side.
Person B -> exits on incomming side.


Does not Work.
Person A -> outgoing side.
Person B -> outgoing side.

Person A -> enters wormhole.
Person A -> exits on incomming side.

Person B -> enters wormhole. || Cannot because the wormhole would have closed after person A exited and there was no longer anything in transit.

As for how long will it remain open before the first object must enter the EH? I would say: unknown. We know it will remain open for a decent amount of time though.
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Seiko
post Jan 11th 2006, 2:02 PM
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I've got a question about how the gate works: If you are in the gate, do you accelerate??? or arent we accelerating in the gate. No mather what, if you go through the gate you have gone many many distance, even if it is a wormhole through space time, the distance is great, how does the gate transport persons, with velocity???? ? ? velocity means also acceleration??
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Auntie Em!
post Jan 11th 2006, 3:37 PM
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Accelerate? I am not sure what you are asking.

An object will exit the gate at the same velocity it entered.

Since they are able to state exactly how long a traveller will be in a wormhole and they know the distance said traveller will be going this implies that travel through a wormhole is a constant speed.
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