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> The hyperspace topic, part 2
KillerMarv
post Aug 18th 2007, 7:27 AM
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QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Aug 18th 2007, 3:22 PM) *

Using the 302 as a transport in that way, yes it is useless but using the hyperdrive to intercept enemy ships before they reach Earth is the real point behind a hyperdrive on the X-302. Take the finale of season 1, Apophis and Klorel exit hyperspace around Saturn. If Earth had had access to a X-302 at that point, they wouldn't have needed to wait for the Ha'taks to reach Earth's orbit. The X-302 was never meant to be used to to ferry people between planets, it was meant to be used as an interstellar interceptor.


Well, before the Prometheus was constructed, the X-302 would have really been a valuable asset to Earth. I was debating the use of it now. smile.gif
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jhdesynz
post Feb 28th 2008, 7:58 PM
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KillerMarv,

The only thing that keeps bugging me is that after reviewing all the major hyperspace episodes, I can't find where they said that the hyper drive is used to keep them in hyperspace. Obviously it opens windows to and from hyperspace and propels them in hyperspace (although you don't see the sublight engines shut off, you do see them come back on when the exit hyperspace). The only instances I can find where they "fell out" of hyperspace was when the control computers forced the ship to exit due to a power source or engine part failure. It looks more like a safety feature so they don't get stuck in hyperspace versus a system where the drive has to be active (like a ST universe warp drive) to be in hyperspace/subspace.

Also, to whomever commented on the futility of comparing the speed of the USS Voyager to an F-304, a ST light year is going to be the same as a SG1/SGA light year unless we are saying TPTB have said light travels at a different rate of speed in the Gateverse. Its always fun to compare SG1/SGA to ST and see who has the better tech.

Oh, and the F-302's are still useful, the wraith launch darts in every battle. The Asurans were the only enemy that didn't have a fighter sized/class ship (though we know they had PJ's).
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JTMAG1
post Feb 29th 2008, 1:16 AM
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QUOTE(jhdesynz @ Feb 28th 2008, 7:58 PM) *

KillerMarv,

The only thing that keeps bugging me is that after reviewing all the major hyperspace episodes, I can't find where they said that the hyper drive is used to keep them in hyperspace. Obviously it opens windows to and from hyperspace and propels them in hyperspace (although you don't see the sublight engines shut off, you do see them come back on when the exit hyperspace). The only instances I can find where they "fell out" of hyperspace was when the control computers forced the ship to exit due to a power source or engine part failure. It looks more like a safety feature so they don't get stuck in hyperspace versus a system where the drive has to be active (like a ST universe warp drive) to be in hyperspace/subspace.

In 'The Return', The Tria's hyperdrive shuts down during their trip to the MW. In SGA 'First Strike', the hyperdrive shuts down when it runs out of power and the ship is stranded in the middle of no where. There are multiple instances, where the hyperdrives shut down during travel, and the ship drops out of hyperspace. There have been isntances where the teams planned to sabatoge, or destroy a hyperdrive in order to get the ship to drop out of hyperspace. It is widely understood that the condition of the hyperdrive relates to the ships ability to travel through hyperspace. Including to adding power to increase the speed, as seen with Oneal in 'Lost City' as well as some episode with the replicators..
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jhdesynz
post Feb 29th 2008, 2:23 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Feb 29th 2008, 2:16 AM) *

In 'The Return', The Tria's hyperdrive shuts down during their trip to the MW. In SGA 'First Strike', the hyperdrive shuts down when it runs out of power and the ship is stranded in the middle of no where. There are multiple instances, where the hyperdrives shut down during travel, and the ship drops out of hyperspace. There have been isntances where the teams planned to sabatoge, or destroy a hyperdrive in order to get the ship to drop out of hyperspace. It is widely understood that the condition of the hyperdrive relates to the ships ability to travel through hyperspace. Including to adding power to increase the speed, as seen with Oneal in 'Lost City' as well as some episode with the replicators..


These are all good examples and are some of the instances I reviewed. However, this does not prove/disprove that the hyper drive has to be online for a ship to stay in hyperspace. If the drive fails, it appears that it automatically shunts the vessel into normal space. It would be an incredible design oversight if the drive didn't function in such a manor. I also concede your point, it makes just as much sense for the drive to be necessary to keep the ship in hyperspace in the first place. I just don't see blatant evidence one way or the other.

If you could point out when the various teams actually destroyed a hyper drive and the ship dropped out of hyper space on its own, then we will have an answer. Or at least a strong leaning.

If some one remembers the episode references for the following:

The X-302 experimental hyper drive would not enter an unstable window, tends to show that TPTB put some safety factors into consideration.

The Prometheus's Naquadria core overloaded and the hyper drive exits hyperspace and attempted to shut down. This could go either way. The drive either lost enough power that the hyperspace field failed and the ship entered normal space OR the drive computers forced the ship to exit hyperspace when a dangerous condition was detected in the hyper drive systems.

Your point about the increase in speed due to a power increase also doesn't prove the point as we have no canon reference as to how the hyper drive functions (after 10+ years, you think there could be some kind of technical manual, we geeks like such things :-D ). It could simply be that the more energy that the propulsion section of the hyper drive (as opposed to the hyperspace window generator) has to convert into whatever form of thrust is used; the faster the ship goes. There is no strong evidence that the drive creates hyperspace (ala ST:VOY transwarp/slipstream tech) just as there is no strong evidence to support my theory that the drive is more similar to a jump gate + hyperspace engine (ala BAB5, albeit without the need for marker beacons).
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KillerMarv
post Feb 29th 2008, 3:15 AM
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QUOTE(jhdesynz @ Feb 29th 2008, 2:58 AM) *

KillerMarv,

The only thing that keeps bugging me is that after reviewing all the major hyperspace episodes, I can't find where they said that the hyper drive is used to keep them in hyperspace. Obviously it opens windows to and from hyperspace and propels them in hyperspace (although you don't see the sublight engines shut off, you do see them come back on when the exit hyperspace). The only instances I can find where they "fell out" of hyperspace was when the control computers forced the ship to exit due to a power source or engine part failure. It looks more like a safety feature so they don't get stuck in hyperspace versus a system where the drive has to be active (like a ST universe warp drive) to be in hyperspace/subspace.


Well, if you go back and read again what I wrote, you will see that my post starts with "Here is my theory on how it works". The show will not dare to give so much details on how something like this works. So, I used a little physics and devised a little theory. If you want to believe it, that is your choice, if not, again, your choice.

And this is what I also wrote:

QUOTE

P.S.: Since the writers never told us all this, and probably never will, this is only speculation (with physics).

P.P.S.: There may be other hyperspace theories out there, the internet is a pretty big place, and the world an even bigger one. I would like to see them, if people would like to share. But don't contradict this theory otherwise. Contradict it with facts. Thank you.
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jhdesynz
post Feb 29th 2008, 8:15 PM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Feb 29th 2008, 4:15 AM) *

Well, if you go back and read again what I wrote, you will see that my post starts with "Here is my theory on how it works". The show will not dare to give so much details on how something like this works. So, I used a little physics and devised a little theory. If you want to believe it, that is your choice, if not, again, your choice.

And this is what I also wrote:


Marv,

I appreciate that. I asked you directly due to the fact you seem to have one of the best grasps behind hyperspace technology. Not trying to overrule your theory. It is sound and very well thought out. I am just proposing a different point of view on the same basic theory.

What I was aiming at is, with your better scientific understanding of the physics side of it, is my theory plausible?
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KillerMarv
post Mar 1st 2008, 3:45 AM
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QUOTE(jhdesynz @ Mar 1st 2008, 3:15 AM) *

What I was aiming at is, with your better scientific understanding of the physics side of it, is my theory plausible?


The point you were making is indeed plausible. Since I was saying they're trying to keep the tachyon field at a low level of energy, they could also be trying to keep the tachyon field standing. What if shutting down the hyperdrive leads to dispersing the tachyon field. That would mean not only being stuck in hyperspace, but without a proper defense mechanism, being ripped particle by particle in a matter of nanoseconds. 1.gif

This post has been edited by KillerMarv: Mar 1st 2008, 3:46 AM
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jhdesynz
post Mar 1st 2008, 2:09 PM
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One could assume that since the Alteran sheilds do work in hyperspace (keeps the city pressurized), they could provide some level of defense against that kind of destruction.

However, the whole basis for my theory depends on the designers making the hyperdrive computers shunt the ship back to regular space in the event of any critcal component failure, similar to the way a ADU will shock a patient's heart when they go into heart failure.

That could make for an interesting weapon design though. Cause enemy ships to be ripped apart by hyperspace tidal forces. blink.gif
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Speaker to the Wind and Moon
post Jun 4th 2008, 10:27 PM
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The theory of "hyperspace" varies. Some say it is a hole in space, and occasionally time. What I say:

Hyperspace actually follows (some) laws of physics. Basically, imagine an ant walking across a large piece of cloth. Well, it will take that ant a LOOONG time to reach the other side, won't it? So you crumple the cloth as small as possible, and the ant can walk across in seconds. So "hyperspace" is technically cheating, by taking a shortcut across space.

And there is my theory of hyperspace. I am slightly unsure of my theory, but it is the best I can do.


P.S. Also, did you know that a paradox in time would rewrite all laws of physics, but is actually possible? blink.gif
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JTMAG1
post Jun 5th 2008, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE(Speaker to the Wind and Moon @ Jun 4th 2008, 10:27 PM) *

The theory of "hyperspace" varies. Some say it is a hole in space, and occasionally time. What I say:

Hyperspace actually follows (some) laws of physics. Basically, imagine an ant walking across a large piece of cloth. Well, it will take that ant a LOOONG time to reach the other side, won't it? So you crumple the cloth as small as possible, and the ant can walk across in seconds. So "hyperspace" is technically cheating, by taking a shortcut across space.

And there is my theory of hyperspace. I am slightly unsure of my theory, but it is the best I can do.
P.S. Also, did you know that a paradox in time would rewrite all laws of physics, but is actually possible? blink.gif

Your theory is widely shared regarding FTL travel. I might have even heard that analogy before.
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lancelot2
post Jun 5th 2008, 3:52 AM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jun 5th 2008, 6:56 AM) *

Your theory is widely shared regarding FTL travel. I might have even heard that analogy before.

Yeah didn't daniel and narim have a similar conversation in enigma?
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Janos
post Jun 5th 2008, 11:30 AM
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No. Daniel and Omoc did. It went something like this (paraphrasing):

Omoc: (holding a stick) If you look at this, the ends seem very far away from each other, but if you do this (bends the stick so the ends touch)...
Daniel: Oh, I remember this from College Physics! You're talking about actually bending space!
Omoc: ...No...

laugh.gif
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lancelot2
post Jun 6th 2008, 4:15 AM
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QUOTE(Janos @ Jun 5th 2008, 5:30 PM) *

No. Daniel and Omoc did. It went something like this (paraphrasing):

Omoc: (holding a stick) If you look at this, the ends seem very far away from each other, but if you do this (bends the stick so the ends touch)...
Daniel: Oh, I remember this from College Physics! You're talking about actually bending space!
Omoc: ...No...

laugh.gif

yeah i knew it was one of them i just couldn't remember which one!
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nayy z
post Aug 3rd 2009, 5:02 AM
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Now ive been reading up on a few pages of this thread.

I have a pretty open mind and a more than "bigginers" grasp on physics (quantom mach and relativity).

Alot of you seem to be thinking hyperdrive as in warpdrive how it bends space or warps it so you can achive what looks like faster than light travel to others who are looking in normal space and time. Now i have a question about that, what about the theroy of relativity how for them time would seem to have slowed down so when they exit warp drive they'll be younger than the other people that they left.

My idea of how hyperdrives work is they open a window into supspace, there its a different place in space and time, thus meaning a different rules of physics apply, such as going faster than the speed of light. If i can dumb it down it would be, your in a different space and time, witch means their could be a different law of physics were you can travel faster than the spead of light.

And i also seen that some people were asking why you couldnt fight in space using weapions and shields while your hyperdrive is active. Thor says that all the power is going to the hyperdrive and cant spare any for shields and wepions thats why it wont work, you dont have the power. in the case of atlantis 3 ZPM is heaps of power so they could probly use all of their systems. And if my theory is what im going by what good are wepions in hyperspace? you'd have to have a wepion that can shoot faster than the speed of light, the only way you could do it is if your in the same layer of subspace and going at the same speed, you'd have to shoot a missile at them while your infront so they are impacting it.

Ive probly went on a bit becasue my mind was fludded so maybe this doesnt make sence to you but it does to me.

In the first few pages of this thread some one was talking about why do you dorp out of hyperspace when your drive becomes damaged or loeses power. maybe theres an quantom machenical effect on particals, if their from a different space time maybe subspace's particals are trying to push them back into normal space time. And the only thing keeping this ship in hyperspace is a hyperdrive field or somthing, or a low level radiation that keeps the particals away.

This is all theory.
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JTMAG1
post Aug 3rd 2009, 8:07 PM
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QUOTE(nayy z @ Aug 3rd 2009, 3:02 AM) *

Now ive been reading up on a few pages of this thread.

I have a pretty open mind and a more than "bigginers" grasp on physics (quantom mach and relativity).

Alot of you seem to be thinking hyperdrive as in warpdrive how it bends space or warps it so you can achive what looks like faster than light travel to others who are looking in normal space and time. Now i have a question about that, what about the theroy of relativity how for them time would seem to have slowed down so when they exit warp drive they'll be younger than the other people that they left.

My idea of how hyperdrives work is they open a window into supspace, there its a different place in space and time, thus meaning a different rules of physics apply, such as going faster than the speed of light. If i can dumb it down it would be, your in a different space and time, witch means their could be a different law of physics were you can travel faster than the spead of light.

And i also seen that some people were asking why you couldnt fight in space using weapions and shields while your hyperdrive is active. Thor says that all the power is going to the hyperdrive and cant spare any for shields and wepions thats why it wont work, you dont have the power. in the case of atlantis 3 ZPM is heaps of power so they could probly use all of their systems. And if my theory is what im going by what good are wepions in hyperspace? you'd have to have a wepion that can shoot faster than the speed of light, the only way you could do it is if your in the same layer of subspace and going at the same speed, you'd have to shoot a missile at them while your infront so they are impacting it.

Ive probly went on a bit becasue my mind was fludded so maybe this doesnt make sence to you but it does to me.

In the first few pages of this thread some one was talking about why do you dorp out of hyperspace when your drive becomes damaged or loeses power. maybe theres an quantom machenical effect on particals, if their from a different space time maybe subspace's particals are trying to push them back into normal space time. And the only thing keeping this ship in hyperspace is a hyperdrive field or somthing, or a low level radiation that keeps the particals away.

This is all theory.

It seems to me that you should have read further, or you read posts from before hyperspace was explained in any great length in the show. Without going back and rereading all the posts we've made other the years, I think that the consensus is something similar to your 4th paragraph
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Janos
post Aug 7th 2009, 5:05 PM
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QUOTE(nayy z @ Aug 3rd 2009, 4:02 AM) *


Alot of you seem to be thinking hyperdrive as in warpdrive how it bends space or warps it so you can achive what looks like faster than light travel to others who are looking in normal space and time. Now i have a question about that, what about the theroy of relativity how for them time would seem to have slowed down so when they exit warp drive they'll be younger than the other people that they left.


Did you read the second post of this topic?
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Tony23310
post Sep 24th 2011, 1:54 PM
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Is hyperspace real in the real world?
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