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> 205 - Condemned
Rating  3
tony2loco
post Aug 14th 2005, 8:13 AM
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That 'Braveheart' comment was indeed hillarious. I would have liked to see the fat magestrate getting fed on by a wraith though. And whoever said that girl who told Wier everything should have been saved was right, she was pretty hot! AH! So many beautiful women in the Pegasus Galaxy, so little room in the jumper. I wonder if the figgity guy who helped the team escape will be in future episodes, I hope not, he looked like he needed some junk or something.
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Pitry
post Aug 14th 2005, 10:32 AM
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Nice. Definitely the best since season premiere, IMHO, but.... still lacking.

I think I know what ti is now - a strong sense of "been there, done that". Honest. I mean, these episodes really, really remind me the season 2-3 of SG-1. It was interesting back at that time, and I still really really enjoy watchign those old episodes (season 3 is my favourite of SG-1) but it doesn't feel new, it doesn't feel exciting, not when it comes in Atlantis, not when it comes after 8 years of SG-1. They shoudl find a line- similar to what they did in the second half of season 1, those episodes were fantastic, one after the other. They seem to have lsot their way.

don't get me wrong, the episode was good, storyline had it's interests, the jokes were funny as usual, McKay's adorable as usual (MacGyver joke! Have they really waited a year for that ? wink.gif) Ronen Dex makes Teyla look important to the plot and a deep, substential character, and Weir is definitely showing a lot more backbone in this season and I still really like her... But I really think they should have kept the Ford storyline the centre rather than the one-time-exploration-gigs, because, honestly... it's getting so, so old.

Liked the stuttering bloke tho. Kinda hope there would be more to him. The evil mayor, well, one glance was enough to know he's an evil mayor. And weir going off-world! Horray! No beckett or Zelenca, tho. Sniff. I realised after I wrote my comments on Duet that I left out the fantastic Zelenca moments, I'm really really liking him. He's still more substential than Teyla and Ronon, tho. Sigh.
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dtremb2
post Aug 14th 2005, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE(Valiento @ Aug 13th 2005, 8:41 PM)
If no quote has been made in the show establishing if they have shields or not, it could be interpreted several ways;

1. They don't have shields, based on the fact that no known shield system has been mentioned.
2. They have shields but they haven't been used yet as far as we know of.
3. They may not have shields since no shield that we know of has been established on the show.
4. They may have shields they just haven't been used yet.
etc. etc. insert different variations of qualifiers for one's own hypothesis or postulate.


Here'e one:

Atlantis have a shield and they had to remove it to cloak the city. Jumpers have cloaking device... so maybe it work the same way. Maybe Ancient's technology can't have both at the same time.
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dr_n_tesla
post Aug 14th 2005, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE(JamesyBHOY @ Aug 14th 2005, 8:35 AM)
Actually you can't, because Jumpers don't have shields.
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I wonder what that is? Shields require power, lots of power if you want to shield an entire PJ. I didn't see the Wraith bring with him a massive D-cell and a portable shield generator. He only brought with him the remote to the PJ which he took from the team.

Here's the dialogue when the John and Rodney were walking back to the PJ at the end of the episode:
JS: You have to put the ship back together....provided you can disarm the shield.
RM: Fine, as long as we get to go home.

That was the first instance that John mentioned a shield to Rodney at all in the episode. Rodney was not at all surprised, this indicated that he already knew about the shield and in all likelihood knew it was the PJ's.

This post has been edited by dr_n_tesla: Aug 14th 2005, 11:45 AM
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ted_simple
post Aug 14th 2005, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE(Pitry @ Aug 14th 2005, 5:32 PM)
Nice. Definitely the best since season premiere, IMHO, but.... still lacking.

I think I know what ti is now - a strong sense of "been there, done that". Honest. I mean, these episodes really, really remind me the season 2-3 of SG-1. It was interesting back at that time, and I still really really enjoy watchign those old episodes (season 3 is my favourite of SG-1) but it doesn't feel new, it doesn't feel exciting, not when it comes in Atlantis, not when it comes after 8 years of SG-1.  They shoudl find a line- similar to what they did in the second half of season 1, those episodes were fantastic, one after the other. They seem to have lsot their way.
*


I was hoping for someone else to point this out. The episode cried Stargate Rebaked.

After ten minutes, I could as well have switched it off, because I knew what was going to happen. So, they're shot down:

- Of course the prisoners would try to get off the planet. They would want to use the puddle jumper to fly out or at least for the DHD. As soon as I saw their leader, I depicted another McKay-Kolya work-for-me-or-your-friends-die interaction.

- The immoral state leader was a bad copy of the Hoffan leader from season one, who was simply a more interesting personality because you could sympathize with his striving to preserve his people. His assistant as usual being a beautiful young woman impersonating his conscience; I just thought "Don't let her be the one who opposes him ultimately! This is such a predictable fanfic!"

- Weir getting on the planet to negotiate for her people. After we've seen her in The Siege Part II, we know her command style good enough to expect her confronting the state leader eye to eye. But what the hell was that? A pretty poor move of him not to arrest her for several reasons. Firstly, he supposedly told the Wraith about her being the reason he was delayed at their dinner, so the Wraith would have insisted on apprehending her. If not, the head of state should still have been bright enough to realize, that with the powerful puddle jumper headed towards the island, there were serious concerns that it could cause trouble (attack the Wraith, lend the prisoners a hand...). There is simply NO WAY that he should have let her go. Putting her to death would make him a new enemy, but he should have kept her confined for a few hours. What kind of pathetic (evil) leader is he??

There is no shame in rebaking ideas, but then there should be a special, intriguing new angle to the story at least. There was none. Those have probably been the 42 most boring minutes of the series, next to Letters From Pegasus.

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Aug 14th 2005, 12:04 PM
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Valiento
post Aug 14th 2005, 2:05 PM
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QUOTE
"Atlantis have a shield and they had to remove it to cloak the city. Jumpers have cloaking device... so maybe it work the same way. Maybe Ancient's technology can't have both at the same time. "


Well I never said that both had to be on at the same time if the ship had a cloak and a shield.

However a few thoughts... They didn't remove the shield systems as I recall, they just added the cloaking device into the systems. .. yes they couldn't power both at the same time. I don't remember if that was because they only had 1 zpm and couldn't power both systems without overloading the zpm, or if it was a limitation in the technology that only allows one or the other, because one will disrupt the other.

So if they have shields and cloaks as the episode Tesla brought up may imply it may work the same way, where only one or the other works but not both, or it may require so much power to run both systems that it might compromise other systems on the ship to do so.

I had forgotten all about that shield in that episode. If it is a PJ shield which is very likely, imo, I wonder if there are controls to change how far the shield extends out, can it be moved closer to the ship's hull? The distance from the ship should lower the amount of energy needed to project it, I'd think.

This post has been edited by Valiento: Aug 14th 2005, 2:22 PM
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usmctech99
post Aug 15th 2005, 12:54 AM
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QUOTE(Valiento @ Aug 14th 2005, 1:05 PM)
Well I never said that both had to be on at the same time if the ship had a cloak and a shield.

However a few thoughts... They didn't remove the shield systems as I recall, they just added the cloaking device into the systems. .. yes they couldn't power both at the same time. I don't remember if that was because they only had 1 zpm and couldn't power both systems without overloading the zpm, or if it was a limitation in the technology that only allows one or the other, because one will disrupt the other.

So if they have shields and cloaks as the episode Tesla brought up may imply it may work the same way, where only one or the other works but not both, or it may require so much power to run both systems that it might compromise other systems on the ship to do so.

I had forgotten all about that shield in that episode. If it is a PJ shield which is very likely, imo, I wonder if there are controls to change how far the shield extends out, can it be moved closer to the ship's hull? The distance from the ship should lower the amount of energy needed to project it, I'd think.
*



The cloak is trying to mask the Jumper from both visual and electronic sensors, and shields give off too much energy to be masked. Having the shields on while cloaked would negate the cloak. So, not a problem of supplying power to both, but one of giving off too much energy for the cloak to be effective.
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Valiento
post Aug 15th 2005, 1:38 AM
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QUOTE(usmctech99 @ Aug 15th 2005, 12:54 AM)
The cloak is trying to mask the Jumper from both visual and electronic sensors, and shields give off too much energy to be masked. Having the shields on while cloaked would negate the cloak. So, not a problem of supplying power to both, but one of giving off too much energy for the cloak to be effective.
*



I guess that makes sense.

Though I personally prefer the classic star trek approach to cloaking technology where the reason why a ship couldn't have shields (or fire weapons) when cloaked was because it didn't have power to run both systems (though if if they could get enough power to run both systems, the cloak could mask the energy output of the shield). Though even in that franchise advanced sensor technology could detect ion emissions from the ship, to track them that way.

Later episodes implied that there was a technology race between Romulans & Federation in creating better and better cloaking systems that could hide ion emssisons, so that federation sensors wouldn't be able to detect them at all. Thus forcing federation to try to steal the tech so they could create better sensors.

Later on Klingons and Romulan/Remans even had a version of cloaks that would allow weapons fire while being cloaked. Some forms of the technology with boosted power allowed for shielded cloaked ships. One even that could fire weapons, while being shieled and cloaked.

This post has been edited by Valiento: Aug 15th 2005, 1:55 AM
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Ilzy
post Aug 15th 2005, 2:01 AM
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As Pitry and Ted have already said this was a really "classical" Stargate episode and that the show seems to be reproducing itself already. But if I could find specific episodes of Stargate SG-1 that were the base for "Intruder" and "Duet" then this time around it was more the overall feeling and structure of the story.

And this episode had the same ethical/moral question that some of the early SG-1 episodes had. By setting the prisoners free the team intruded in planet's internal matters. Ok, the local government convicted innocent people but is that a reason for all to die? The local people had to pay with their lives for one man's wrongdoings. The governor had made his deals, weighted the losses and then come the Atlantis team and destroy everything.

The governor wasn't doing the right thing but who was to judge? Certainly not a bunch of people who came to the planet a day ago and didn't know the historical context and reasons for decisions. Isn't it too arrogant to learn others how to live if things are far from perfect in your own home?
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IndyJan
post Aug 15th 2005, 2:19 AM
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I think what I liked about this episode is that the Wraith can be bought. That evil governor had bribed him more or less for who knows how long to keep him away from the mainland. I think this is something that Weir and her group can use, maybe at a later date.

I did like that Weir got off-world. I was probably one of the loudest in not liking Weir last season. Season 2, I'm a convert. I really am liking Weir. She's showing so much more backbone and actually acting like a true leader. And can I say that I love Major Lorne! I think he makes an excellent second in command to Sheppard.

As last year, I'm not too impressed with Teyla. I really feel that she is boring.

I'm upset that we didn't get Beckett. He has become one of my favorites.

I'm trying to think of a time when SG1 allowed so many innocents to die, just to save themselves. I cannot remember a time at all. Can anyone else? Don't mention The Other Side, because they weren't innocents. Sheppard along with Weir saved criminals, large and small and themselves, and allowed a group of innocent people to be culled just because of one man.
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usmctech99
post Aug 15th 2005, 2:47 AM
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QUOTE(IndyJan @ Aug 15th 2005, 1:19 AM)
I'm trying to think of a time when SG1 allowed so many innocents to die, just to save themselves.  I cannot remember a time at all.  Can anyone else?  Don't mention The Other Side, because they weren't innocents.  Sheppard along with Weir saved criminals, large and small and themselves, and allowed a group of innocent people to be culled just because of one man.
*



I wouldn't say Sheppard saved the criminals out of the goodness of his heart. Don't forget they practically had a gun to his team's heads the entire time.

That's my only defense for Sheppard, but Wier on the other hand... while there had to someone else who knew about the deal with the Wraith, they were still a minority compared to the amount of people that must have been on the planet, as the main populace hadn't been culled during the past few cullings. I can't remember exactly how long the deal had been in place, but the Wraith mentioned predessecors to the administrator. IMO that was just plain evil on her part.
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ted_simple
post Aug 15th 2005, 3:09 AM
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QUOTE(Ilzy @ Aug 15th 2005, 9:01 AM)
The governor wasn't doing the right thing but who was to judge? Certainly not a bunch of people who came to the planet a day ago and didn't know the historical context and reasons for decisions. Isn't it too arrogant to learn others how to live if things are far from perfect in your own home?
*


I thought the episode was close to Beneath the Surface, but important facets were missing. The leader deceived his people; in the SG-1 episode it has been a collective guilt. When the prisoners were freed, the ice age society wouldn't break apart at once; they could introduce paid work to the mines or relocate through the Stargate. Yet here Sheppard brings doom to these people. Besides, did anyone also think when he fired the drone at the cruiser, now he has doomed the whole planet? Come on, a seriously damaged cruiser, the Wraith must be so pissed about now that they'll eradicate the whole planet because who will they think attacked them?? Light-hearted Wild West John is beginning to annoy me. Who is the voice of conscience in their team anyway? Teyla? How often is that girl speaking out anyway...

I'm sorry if my critique offends anyone, perhaps I'm just picking all the bad aspects as I've missed the central message/story this episode was supposed to tell (besides action fighting), but I simply couldn't spot it!

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Aug 15th 2005, 3:10 AM
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Stargate Master
post Aug 15th 2005, 5:24 AM
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Nice episode from Atlantis here. I must admit, like the Madgistrate said in the episode, it was weird to see the Wraith eat real food. Especially when he made that weird sound when he swallowed it. Also, very good fight scenes in this episode, it was funny when Colonel Shepperd tried to brake the stick he found in half but hurt his knee instead, that had me laughing. Overall I would rate this episode 9/10.
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ancient01
post Aug 15th 2005, 6:06 AM
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Teyla is getting pretty good at her stick fighting. She took out a lot of guys in this episode. That scene alone was worth the price of admission.

I agree with the moral dilemma of leaving those people behind, but quite frankly, what could they have done? They rescued as many people as they could. They were in no position to take on 3 wraith cruisers with just 1 puddle jumper. On top of it, they would have revealed themselves to the wraith.
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Ilzy
post Aug 15th 2005, 6:25 AM
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QUOTE(ancient01 @ Aug 15th 2005, 2:06 PM)
I agree with the moral dilemma of leaving those people behind, but quite frankly, what could they have done?  They rescued as many people as they could.  They were in no position to take on 3 wraith cruisers with just 1 puddle jumper.  On top of it, they would have revealed themselves to the wraith.
*


As I see it they should've left them ALL behind and rescue nobody. The planet had its established way of life and the Atlantis team destroyed it just like that. Instead of a bunch of people almost all inhabitants of the planet were doomed and all that thanks to Sheppard's team. It was not their decision who should live and who should die, the people of the planet had to decide that. Like Ted said, where's the conscience?
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fan_83
post Aug 15th 2005, 6:26 AM
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they already revealed themselves to the wraith...
i would guess that the surviving cruiser will know its been hit by a drone...
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JamesyBHOY
post Aug 15th 2005, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE
I mainly was trying to speculate based on known physical laws or historical evidence in order to try suspend my own disbelief on the matter, it adds to my own enjoyment of the series if I can try to rationalize the more awkward moments during the series based on similar examples in real life.

But hey if you are all for throwing out realism and just viewing the show as being pure fantasy, I have no issue with that. You are entitled to your own opinion and way of enjoying the show.

Let it be known that I made no intention of offending your way of enjoying the show.

That is my own viewpoints and interpretations should not be viewed as an attack on how you interpret the show, even if I may not necessarily agree with the way that you interpret things on the show.


Hang on a minute! I'm not for throwing anything out. You made a comparrison between thousands of Arrows being fired in the general direction of an enemy & a few energy based weapons shots. How can you possibly compare them! Hundreds/Thousands of arrows vs a couple of Dozen shots. That gives you a few 100/1000 percent more of hitting the intended target. So there is a big difference between firing in mass compared to firing a few & comparing the results.

What's my point! My point is the Ancients seeded all the Human life in the galaxy, they lived on the worlds alongside the Humans, they protected all the planets in Pegasus galaxy. They were seen as Gods/creators or whatever way you wish to describe it, So I can't see their own primitive people attempting to stage a rebellion & attack the Atlantians in any form or shape. That's why it wasn't originally designed with shields or any form of armour plating. How can I argue that it's stupid for it to be hit primitive weapons. If it didn't have any form of outer protection then it's pretty obvious what will happen if it's impacted on hard enough.


QUOTE
I have to ask why would a ship designed mainly for exploration if that is indeed what puddle jumpers were designed for would have a weapon system? Is it usual for exploratory vehicles to have weapon systems?

Yet since it has a weapon system, why doesn't it have a defensive system (energy absorbtion/shields whatever) beyond the cloaking device?

I wouldn't be surprised if a character brings up Puddle Jumper "shield systems" if a plot demanded it wink.gif. Its not like show writers haven't pulled things out of nowhere before for dramatic purposes, wink.gif, all hail the great "plot device".

Not to mention I can't remember any quote specifically saying stating that "puddle jumpers, don't have shields" mentioned during the series. You can of course correct me if I missed a quote discussing the issue?

If no quote has been made in the show establishing if they have shields or not, it could be interpreted several ways;

1. They don't have shields, based on the fact that no known shield system has been mentioned.

2. They have shields but they haven't been used yet as far as we know of.

3. They may not have shields since no shield that we know of has been established on the show.

4. They may have shields they just haven't been used yet.

etc. etc. insert different variations of qualifiers for one's own hypothesis or postulate.

However ultimately it would mean we don't have enough info to know either way, to say in 100% surety on if they have shields or not, if no qualifers establishing either way,  was made during the show.


It was originally designed for exploration purposes, to go through the gate to check in/keep watch on their protected worlds. The Cloak was developed most likely to enable them to go through the gate in stealth & allow them to keep tabs on the developing worlds from afar, without directly interfering in worlds that weren't technologically advanced enough or ready yet for them to encounter. Why since it doesn't have shields or any other defensive teh on it have weapons.

Simply because they encountered the Wraith & added in weapons. What good would it be for the Wraith to be attacking a plan et on the other side of the galaxy & them send a Warship. By the time it reached the destination the planet would have already been culled. So the Jumpers were modified with weapons for such a scenario to help defend planets or indeed defend themselves if they were caught off world & unaware.

As for the last part of your post. It won't be brought up by the characters or any number of 1,2,3,4 or 99 scenarios.

We do know 1000% that they Do Not have shields. Because the writer of the episode specifically stated that Puddle Jumpers don't have shields. If that isn't conclusive enough then I don't know what is.

Just incase you make any further posts saying that how do I know, Then go check out the link below.

4th Post Down, 13th Question

See, that wasn't so hard now was it!

This post has been edited by JamesyBHOY: Aug 15th 2005, 11:12 AM
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JamesyBHOY
post Aug 15th 2005, 1:12 PM
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QUOTE(dr_n_tesla @ Aug 14th 2005, 5:31 PM)
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I wonder what that is? Shields require power, lots of power if you want to shield an entire PJ. I didn't see the Wraith bring with him a massive D-cell and a portable shield generator. He only brought with him the remote to the PJ which he took from the team.

Here's the dialogue when the John and Rodney were walking back to the PJ at the end of the episode:
JS: You have to put the ship back together....provided you can disarm the shield.
RM: Fine, as long as we get to go home.

That was the first instance that John mentioned a shield to Rodney at all in the episode. Rodney was not at all surprised, this indicated that he already knew about the shield and in all likelihood knew it was the PJ's.
*



You don't need to wonder what that is, It's a Wraith Shield that was activated around the PJ in 'The Defiant One'. Puddle Jumpers don't have shields. So now you know & don't need to wonder anymore.
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Aussie_Bloke
post Aug 16th 2005, 3:45 AM
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hey guys I wont be seeing this episode for quite some time (Australia)...and i cant download it (56K)..so can anyone post screenshots of the olesian's tech.....

It sounded to me (in the transcript) that they had some good stuff!!!

So any pics of the 'security vessels' or somethin would be great!!!!!
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Pitry
post Aug 16th 2005, 8:32 AM
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Teyla - nope, I'm still not impressed. I was jsut using her to critisise Ronon Dex, he seems to be even more pointless. Honestly, what are they thinking....

When did SG-1 let loads of innocents die? Scortched Earth. You could argue that 2001, not all Aschen are evil-let's-wipe-them-all people. Loads of Jaffas.... About leaving people behind, they can't rescue the entire bloody galaxy (Atlantis team that is). They've problems enough keeping themselves undetected... Atlantis, much like last year, is still on very sketchy moral ground. The writers got some major problems and they keep on bypassing them, instead of addressing them, much like Poisoning the Well. Last week did have an interesting angle on that, Beckett thinking of helping the Wraith, but all in all, they really got problems on the moral department - the writers themselves seem non-committed to what viewes the atlantis personnel should be taking.
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dr_n_tesla
post Aug 16th 2005, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE(JamesyBHOY @ Aug 16th 2005, 4:12 AM)
You don't need to wonder what that is, It's a Wraith Shield that was activated around the PJ in 'The Defiant One'. Puddle Jumpers don't have shields. So now you know & don't need to wonder anymore.
*
I think you missed the sarcasm.... If the Wraith have shields that can activate around a PJ, then why the f#@& don't they have them on everything else they fly??? The first shot was obviously of the Wraith remote decloaking the PJ, ie when he first got there. Notice that he's not lugging around anything remotely powerful enough to power a shield that big. So in your argument, the Wraith have the technology to power shield generators that can generate a field large enough to envelope a PJ as well as having the shields. Both of which are small enough to fit inside the Wraith's pockets....Did I miss something?? Anyone care to clear the air on this???
QUOTE(Aussie_Bloke @ Aug 16th 2005, 6:45 PM)
hey guys I wont be seeing this episode for quite some time (Australia)...and i cant download it (56K)..so can anyone post screenshots of the olesian's tech.....

It sounded to me (in the transcript) that they had some good stuff!!!

So any pics of the 'security vessels' or somethin would be great!!!!!
*
Olesian security vessel
user posted image
user posted image
Olesian city
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This post has been edited by dr_n_tesla: Aug 16th 2005, 10:37 AM
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JamesyBHOY
post Aug 16th 2005, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE(dr_n_tesla @ Aug 16th 2005, 4:17 PM)
I think you missed the sarcasm.... If the Wraith have shields that can activate around a PJ, then why the f#@& don't they have them on everything else they fly??? The first shot was obviously of the Wraith remote decloaking the PJ, ie when he first got there. Notice that he's not lugging around anything remotely powerful enough to power a shield that big. So in your argument, the Wraith have the technology to power shield generators that can generate a field large enough to envelope a PJ as well as having the shields. Both of which are small enough to fit inside the Wraith's pockets....Did I miss something?? Anyone care to clear the air on this???
*



I obviously missed the sarcasm because I didn't detect any.

Hence if you read my other previous post, you would have seen that I provided a link that showed that it was a Wraith Shield that was placed around the Jumper.

If you ask why don't they have them on the Darts, the exact same thing can be said about the Jumpers. They don't send in Darts to fully Ancient protected cities or worlds where they know they are liable to get their asses taken out. This is why you always see Cruisers/Hive Ships alongside them. They do all the dirty work & the Darts swoop in & take up victims. When there are Hunders of Darts coming down then people will panic & even though they take a couple down, the rest will get them eventually. They obviously have offensive weapons for taking care of enemy obstacles as seen in 'The Brotherhood', So it's most likely the same as why Gliders don't have shields as well. It's basically inefficient for things so small that are produced in such quantities to have them integrated into it's systems. As to why they don't have them on their Hive ships or Cruisers, then that's a good question!

Did you see the 'The Hot Zone' where they found a minute Ancient personal shield device. That was tiny & could fit in the palm of your hand. So who's to say the Wraith didn't use their equivelant on the Jumper. It didn't need to be powerful enough to go around the whole ship. Because he obviously integrated it into the Jumpers systems, So in essence he used the PJ's own power to supply his shield with all the power it needed to place the protection around the Jumper.

As to why they don't use their shields all the time, then simply they are too arrogant. They see themselves as the dominant species & Humans as their food & so wearing a shield everytime they come across a shitty under developed Human planet would undermine that dominance big time.

Shields anyway, would probably only be given to higher ranking Wraith members of their hierarchy. They don't seem to have a problem with self sacrifice, yet in 'Suspicion' the Male Wraith tries to leg it when trouble breaks out. So either him in 'The Defiant One'
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post Aug 16th 2005, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE
Olesian security vessel


Olesian city


Thanks mate - they look cool - i wonder if those security vessels could have given the wraith cruiser a run......
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post Aug 17th 2005, 1:21 AM
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total rehash - SG1 303, Prisoners, anyone?......only this time no Linnea to unleash, unless we find out the prisoner leader's body count was a lot more than 11 smile.gif

as for the moral quandary, that society was doomed one way or the other. Anyone really think they could have ever arrested enough people to satisfy all the awakened Wraith? The arrangement they made was just one of convenience, for as long as it worked for the Wraith, so they were going to the mainland one way or the other after they cleaned off the island. Helping the prisoners escape seemed a little odd, but I suppose at the time it was a tactical decision to get them off their backs and allow shepherd and them all to get to the gate unhindered.

One thing that bothered me, though...if Eldon was educated enough to know how to fashion cannon from natural items, couldnt he, on such a heavily wooded island, and understanding them to have the tools to work wood, based on their hut construction, have built them a boat? smile.gif

And since they brought him along, whats this Eldon guy going to do on Atlantis now? He's obviously going to return in some capacity at some time.
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