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> 313 - Irresponsible
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Dafmeister
post Jan 29th 2007, 7:16 PM
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Kolya Vs. Sheppard was always a good addition to any episode but the fact that Kolya always wanted to kill Sheppard and failed made it tedious. Unless Robert Davi no longer wanted to appear in Atlantis, I don't see why they killed him off. Having the rogue Genii team acting as a thorn in the Atlantis team's side occasionally would have made for a couple of good episodes.
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Revan
post Jan 29th 2007, 7:31 PM
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I agree with JC1, I expected Shep to be less professional when he killed Kolya. He is quick enough to disobey orders when it suits him, why not be emotional here, and kill Kolya in a more vicious, revenge-oriented way?
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JTMAG1
post Jan 29th 2007, 8:25 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Jan 29th 2007, 7:31 PM) *

I agree with JC1, I expected Shep to be less professional when he killed Kolya. He is quick enough to disobey orders when it suits him, why not be emotional here, and kill Kolya in a more vicious, revenge-oriented way?

"Because that would lower us." (said in my best David Carradine voice (which isn't very good)).

We don't want to see shepard in an sinister light, so he doesn't do things like that.
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Revan
post Jan 29th 2007, 8:27 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 29th 2007, 8:25 PM) *

"Because that would lower us." (said in my best David Carradine voice (which isn't very good)).

We don't want to see shepard in an sinister light, so he doesn't do things like that.

It would make him an interesting character.
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JC1
post Jan 30th 2007, 1:49 PM
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QUOTE(JTMAG1 @ Jan 30th 2007, 1:25 AM) *

"Because that would lower us." (said in my best David Carradine voice (which isn't very good)).

We don't want to see shepard in an sinister light, so he doesn't do things like that.

It wouldn't be all that sinister, Koyla is an enemy of Atlantis and the Genii. And Sheppard did kill Koyla, eventually, but it would have been better if he showed more emotion or a darker side to his character.

If you look at O'Neill, he had something of a shady past. While he was always full of sarcastic and smart comments, there were times when he showed emotion and a much more serious side to his character.

With Sheppard, we more or less see the same character each episode. The Sheppard vs Koyla thing could have allowed us to see a different aspect to Sheppard, but the writers chose to waste it, in my opinion.
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JTMAG1
post Jan 30th 2007, 2:20 PM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Jan 30th 2007, 1:49 PM) *

It wouldn't be all that sinister, Koyla is an enemy of Atlantis and the Genii. And Sheppard did kill Koyla, eventually, but it would have been better if he showed more emotion or a darker side to his character.

If you look at O'Neill, he had something of a shady past. While he was always full of sarcastic and smart comments, there were times when he showed emotion and a much more serious side to his character.

With Sheppard, we more or less see the same character each episode. The Sheppard vs Koyla thing could have allowed us to see a different aspect to Sheppard, but the writers chose to waste it, in my opinion.

With that said, I can think back to 'The Storm', and I remember Sheppard yelling Koyla's name over the radio. I guess that emotion was great. I wouldn't want to see Sheppard kill his enemy in cold blood but perhaps a little emotion would not be a bad thing.
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Sylver
post Apr 28th 2007, 8:29 AM
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QUOTE(JC1 @ Jan 29th 2007, 8:01 PM) *

Lucius is still annoying, hope we don't see that character again. They really should have come up with a decent episode to end the Sheppard/Koyla arc.

And it would be nice to see a more serious side to Sheppard. Koyla did feed him to a Wraith again and again, I expected a little more than a lighthearted quickdraw.


They couldn't have killed Lucius instead? I know that's not how this show works, but man. Annoying only scratches the surface. Please don't bring him back!

As for Koyla...I really like the character. Wraith aside (who are more amorphous bad guys as opposed to a name for the face that'll really make them the arc of the show) Koyla was fantastic! He was evil, unapologetic, and kept coming back. (Ok, and I love the actor, too. biggrin.gif) Other than extortion and the fact they kept coming back to do it, he had very little interest in Atlantis itself. He wanted to rule the Genii. And kill Sheppard. To do that, he wanted the supplies and weapons of Atlantis. It was never personal. Except for Sheppard, but I never really felt that from Koyla's POV, only (rarely) Sheppard's.

They killed a great character off for no real reason and no emotion from Sheppard. I'm going to miss him.
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ancient01
post Apr 29th 2007, 3:39 PM
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I always felt that Lucious was a little too "culture specific" for a Pegasus character. He just didn't fit. Comic relief is one thing, but that's a little extreme. Hopefully we've seen that last of him...
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Revan
post Apr 29th 2007, 5:14 PM
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QUOTE(ancient01 @ Apr 29th 2007, 4:39 PM) *

I always felt that Lucious was a little too "culture specific" for a Pegasus character. He just didn't fit. Comic relief is one thing, but that's a little extreme. Hopefully we've seen that last of him...

How is Lucius "culture-specific?" I mean, I always just considered him an over-inflated bladder full of hot air. whistling.gif
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Parmenides
post Apr 29th 2007, 5:31 PM
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I can sort of of see what you mean - he did seem very much like a terrestrial con-man, and not particularly alien. I don't think the accent helped. 1.gif
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Revan
post Apr 29th 2007, 5:45 PM
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QUOTE(Parmenides @ Apr 29th 2007, 6:31 PM) *

I can sort of of see what you mean - he did seem very much like a terrestrial con-man, and not particularly alien. I don't think the accent helped. 1.gif

Why do we assume humans would be less gullible on other planets? I would imagine conning humans is relatively the same all over the galaxy. biggrin.gif
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Janos
post Apr 30th 2007, 12:25 AM
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How exactly is it that water passes through Lucius' shield when McKay was in danger of starving to death because he couldn't eat or drink when he had the same shield on? blink.gif
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Revan
post Apr 30th 2007, 12:58 AM
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QUOTE(Janos @ Apr 30th 2007, 1:25 AM) *

How exactly is it that water passes through Lucius' shield when McKay was in danger of starving to death because he couldn't eat or drink when he had the same shield on? blink.gif

Air passes through, but there isn't any air inside the shield, so breathing underwater is impossible. Lucius wasn't in danger of drowning, just asphixiation...

Did he get wet, because he shouldn't have... I forget. sad.gif
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Dafmeister
post Apr 30th 2007, 3:17 AM
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QUOTE(Janos @ Apr 30th 2007, 6:25 AM) *
How exactly is it that water passes through Lucius' shield when McKay was in danger of starving to death because he couldn't eat or drink when he had the same shield on? blink.gif
M&M wrote this episode so we know the main reason why there are inconsistancies.
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KillerMarv
post Apr 30th 2007, 9:12 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Apr 30th 2007, 8:58 AM) *

Air passes through, but there isn't any air inside the shield, so breathing underwater is impossible. Lucius wasn't in danger of drowning, just asphixiation...

Did he get wet, because he shouldn't have... I forget. sad.gif


No, he didn't get wet. He was quite dry. 1.gif

QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Apr 30th 2007, 11:17 AM) *

M&M wrote this episode so we know the main reason why there are inconsistancies.


Fortunately, it wasn't the case here. There is no inconsistency, water didn't pass through his shield. 1.gif
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Shylodog
post Apr 30th 2007, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Apr 30th 2007, 7:12 AM) *

No, he didn't get wet. He was quite dry. 1.gif
Fortunately, it wasn't the case here. There is no inconsistency, water didn't pass through his shield. 1.gif

But there is an inconsistancy. How were they able to make him bend over? If they were able to make him bend over, then the load that was dropped on him would have made him fall down. Or when Ronin hit him, he would have fallen back. Or when the other bad guys attempted to attack him, again he would have been pushed around a bit. But he wasn't, it was as if nothing affected him. 1.gif

Of course, I'm not gonna really nitpick this, since without it, we wouldn't have the dramitc effect of Lucius suffocating. biggrin.gif
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Revan
post Apr 30th 2007, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE(Shylodog @ Apr 30th 2007, 11:23 AM) *

But there is an inconsistancy. How were they able to make him bend over? If they were able to make him bend over, then the load that was dropped on him would have made him fall down. Or when Ronin hit him, he would have fallen back. Or when the other bad guys attempted to attack him, again he would have been pushed around a bit. But he wasn't, it was as if nothing affected him. 1.gif

Of course, I'm not gonna really nitpick this, since without it, we wouldn't have the dramitc effect of Lucius suffocating. biggrin.gif

The shield had inertial dampeners. That is why McKay falling from the balcony and getting punched had little or no effect.

Lucius wasn't hit hard, he was manhandled, which isn't a higher velocity impact.
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KillerMarv
post Apr 30th 2007, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE(Shylodog @ Apr 30th 2007, 6:23 PM) *

But there is an inconsistancy. How were they able to make him bend over?


They were able to bend him because force cannot be ignored. His skin wouldn't feel how he is bent over, but the force of any push shouldn't be ignored. That added with what Revan just said should explain it all.
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Revan
post Apr 30th 2007, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE(KillerMarv @ Apr 30th 2007, 11:46 AM) *

They were able to bend him because force cannot be ignored. His skin wouldn't feel how he is bent over, but the force of any push shouldn't be ignored. That added with what Revan just said should explain it all.

Well being pushed isn't inherently detrimental to one's health. The shield protects against harmful attacks... i.e. high velocity impacts (falls, trains, cars, bullets) and high energy discharges (weapons, that energy draining gaseous creature thing). It also keeps everything out... it is a barrier between oneself and the outside world, exempting non-harmful air molecules (gotta breathe to live).

They were just holding him, which isn't really an attack. smile.gif
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Shylodog
post Apr 30th 2007, 11:16 AM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Apr 30th 2007, 9:05 AM) *

Well being pushed isn't inherently detrimental to one's health. The shield protects against harmful attacks... i.e. high velocity impacts (falls, trains, cars, bullets) and high energy discharges (weapons, that energy draining gaseous creature thing). It also keeps everything out... it is a barrier between oneself and the outside world, exempting non-harmful air molecules (gotta breathe to live).

They were just holding him, which isn't really an attack. smile.gif

While this probably makes immense sense to you rocket scientists, can you understand where those of us laymen are getting lost in translation? You say he can be bent over into a bucket, because force cannot be denied, however why wasn't he forced into a prove position (albeit physically uninjured) by that heavy load that was dropped on his head. It's the same type of physical force which should be acting upon the shield in the same way, it's just varying degrees of force. 1.gif

We already know this personal shield is not like the Goa'uld one where slow moving obects can pass through, so my point is that (being the layman that I am) I cannot understand why a small force against the force field would have a greater effect on the protected than the greater force. huh.gif

I mean, ultimately I have the answer: dramatic effect in a scifi show. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Shylodog: Apr 30th 2007, 11:17 AM
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Dafmeister
post Apr 30th 2007, 11:39 AM
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If they were able to move Lucius while his shield was active, why didn't McKay move when Sheppard punched him while his shield was active back in season 2? The shield does not dictate what the person does, it responds to the person using it. Someone forcing Lucius to move should not have had any effect as they were not physically moving Lucius.
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Parmenides
post Apr 30th 2007, 1:38 PM
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QUOTE(Revan @ Apr 29th 2007, 11:45 PM) *

Why do we assume humans would be less gullible on other planets? I would imagine conning humans is relatively the same all over the galaxy. biggrin.gif

It was just the way he talked, and the expressions he used. He wouldn't have seemed out of place in, say, New York, and given that he's supposed to have grown up on an alien world, the similarity shouldn't really be there.
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KillerMarv
post Apr 30th 2007, 1:57 PM
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QUOTE(Shylodog @ Apr 30th 2007, 7:16 PM) *

While this probably makes immense sense to you rocket scientists, can you understand where those of us laymen are getting lost in translation? You say he can be bent over into a bucket, because force cannot be denied, however why wasn't he forced into a prove position (albeit physically uninjured) by that heavy load that was dropped on his head. It's the same type of physical force which should be acting upon the shield in the same way, it's just varying degrees of force. 1.gif


Like Revan said. It is indeed the same type of physical force, but the velocity it acts with is much bigger. Lucius was grabbed. It's just like putting him in a box and throwing him in the water. Even if the shield would normally protect from the walls of the box, it wouldn't have any choice but to follow their action. The hand of the thug pushed the shield, which dragged Lucius along.
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IndyJan
post Apr 30th 2007, 1:58 PM
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You know when I first heard that Richard Kind was going to be on the show, I said, "Oh no, he will ruin it. He is a terrible actor and always plays the same type of irritant." Well the first episode proved me correct and this one didn't change my mind at all. Out of all the characters they could have return, why this one?

Then they kill off Koyla, who, as I said from the beginning, the Genii would make a good "bad" guy, or enemy, now he is gone. And we are left with Lucius.

Why aren't the SGA people concerned that Lucius "perused" everything on Atlantis and has that information? I know that I would be majorly concerned that he has the knowledge that they wouldn't want to fall into certain hands. Stupid M&M! Once again, they have given us a totally wasteful, useless and unentertaining episode.
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